#19 | Mindbites - 15 Minute Deep Dive About Sleep!

:: 00:04

welcome back to mind bites. I'm tom, I'm joe and this is inside a mind. Mind bites are our short form episodes where joe and I will pack as much information for you guys to take back into your day-to-day lives. Joe and I are not experts in the space, just two guys sharing their views and sharing some pretty epic stats along the way. Our Our topic of discussion today is sleep myth-busting, sleep-summing in 2025. I'm trying to do a lot better because my sleep's pretty rubbish and, joe, I know we've talked about sleep a lot on the podcast episodes, but we never really debunked sleep and some of the myths behind it and some of our areas and scientifically-backed areas that we think are really, really important along the sleep cycle. I wanted to start this off by myth busting. We're going to myth bust three separate topics, and the first one I want to go into is the eight hour rule. What's your view on the eight hour rule?

:: 01:01

well, from someone who hasn't had eight hours sleep for about six months, I can can safely say it's not true at all. I think, um, I think I understand the gauge of like. Anywhere between six to eight hours is probably like optimal, but some people can just thrive on half that. Some people only need six, some people need ten. So saying that someone they need eight hours not getting that is like I don't think it's particularly healthy to say that someone. I think it just depends on you.

:: 01:28

That's my complete, honest answer, like some days I could wake up at six hours and feel amazing, but then I could have a super, super stressful day or a day that's taken a load of energy out of me and like really tested my adhd and made me really overstimulated, when the next day I might need nine and a half nine hours to like feel normal.

If I was to do that six again, I could feel horrendous, whereas the day before I'd feel amazing, I think, also we get so fixated on stats and say you need eight hours.

:: 01:57

If you woke up after six hours sleep and you look at your, your whoop or apple watch or your phone and it said you got six, you would go from feeling really good and because all the doctors tell you you need eight, it would bring your mood down slightly. So it's a bit like doing a workout and forgetting your apple watch and you're thinking, oh, I've not done a workout yet because my apple watch haven't told me I've done one. I feel like it's we're so obsessed with what people tell us we should be doing rather than just feeling how we feel absolutely.

:: 02:20

I think a really good like a sentence I saw around everything sleep was if you wake up naturally and you can focus without caffeine, you're probably getting enough sleep, and that, like that like really stuck with me. I was like you know what? That's probably a good way of like analyzing it, because some days I'll wake up and I'll be like give me a coffee. I need, I need a flat white asap. But then the days that is absolutely's absolutely right, that statement the days I wake up and I'm like I don't really need one. I could have one because I like drinking coffee, but I'm pretty switched on, I'm feeling good. It all comes back to one thing being not too overstimulated for me and then having a long enough sleep, and that just completely depends on the day and what I've sort of got going on at that time. But yeah, that's something that's really important.

Don't feel like, in my opinion, you need to hit eight hours on the dot. That's optimal. Find what works for you. If you're feeling super stressed and you need a bit more sleep, try and go to bed a bit early so you can get that extra sleep. Or, if you have a bit flexibility being self-employed, maybe lie in a tiny bit longer on those days, don't beat yourself up. Or again. On the other hand, some people could find six, six, six, six, six. Every single day is kind of perfect for them. So again, just finding what works for you absolutely spot on.

:: 03:34

I'd also say, on top of that as well, since I've started drinking water before I drink coffee, I feel much better because of that. So I like to hydrate before I start to take a coffee in the morning and have a coffee a bit later, um, I make. That makes a big difference to me. It's a little little tip there, for most people.

:: 03:47

Interesting. You had me confused then when you were like I started drinking water. It's like you, 30 years, did it right. The next one we want to go on to is the phrase I'll sleep when I'm dead, and that whole mentality. What's your view?

:: 04:03

I mean, you know firsthand right who's had a dad who's worked in the city and probably done 18 hour days and done four hours sleep not just to him itself, but the damage that does to people who have that mentality of like I'll get three hours, I'll work through the night, I'll get half an hour's kip and then I'll get back up. I know it's not feasible for some people who are working insane hours for an insane job. I just couldn't do that. I cannot be that guy who does that. So for me, since I've prioritized rest more, like early, early finishes, less time, my phone, less tv time, I feel so much better as a result of that. And the whole I'll sleep when I'm dead thing is like well, no, you'll be dead earlier as a result of that yeah.

:: 04:42

So in case of, like, um, my dad doing those super long days all the time, he's a machine, he's an absolute machine. He doesn't even look remotely phased by it now, so he's, he's an anomaly on this. But for myself, if I was to do that, you know, if I was to do a massive sleep deprived days where my decision making ability just drops massively, I was like it really screws with me. So, like having a kind of fixed time around, some days I can, you know, do longer days, maybe a couple days doing shorter days, but yeah, sleep something, that's uh gonna be probably my number one thing this year, and that I'll sleep dead, sleep when I'm dead mentality, that's not for me. I'm not gonna going to lie to you. I think it's a big myth. The third one we want to go through is I'll catch up on weekends. I'll catch up with my sleep on the weekends.

Your brain does not work like a bank. Please, please, don't forget that. Your brain doesn't work like a bank. You can't catch up on the weekends. You can't accumulate sleep debt and then pay it off down the line. Just find your kind of rhythm. Don't sleep three, four hours during the week and then sleep 15 on saturday and sunday. Find that kind of rhythm, find what works for you, find what works for your timing, your circadian rhythm, and then work from there. That would be my best tip. What's yours, joe?

:: 06:04

now I'd also say that, um, your entire brain chemistry is altered if you do, if you try that approach. So the like you say, your rhythm, circadian rhythms, actually alter your brain chemistry. If you try to do the sort of sleep marathons on the weekend and or vice versa, you get no sleep on the weekend, you try and take more during the week is trying to have a consistent. You might be on or off a couple of hours based on the work you've done that day, or an earlier start the next day, but try and be consistently with it. Try and be as consistent as possible. Have a routine of if you know you're going to be up early, try and go to bed slightly early. You still are getting that sort of at least a few more hours in to make up for it.

But, um, yeah, the whole sleep marathon to make up for it thing doesn't work absolutely. So those are, those are huh, I wasn't aware of that how the difference between trying to do the whole sleep marathon thing to make up for it. I didn't realize just how bad it was for you to try and do that yeah, it's pretty crazy.

:: 06:55

I love reading about stuff like this and obviously we've got all these stats from from off the internet and and all these different types of places like studies etc. Where we try and accumulate loads of good things to reciprocate to you guys. But for our three myths that is, the eight hour rule myth, I'll sleep when I'm dead, rule myth, and I'll catch up on the weekends rule myth. Now these are our three. Here's what actually works, backed by real science, and this is everything from studies, little bits we've found where we've been, like I really like that and we've kept in our notes over the years as well. But the first one is locking in your sleep rhythm, joe what's your view?

:: 07:37

I'm big on this. I touched it then I feel like I I'm massive for routine, just like you are, so routine for me if I lose I mean, prime example is over the Christmas New Year period your routine is completely gone. So for me, my sleep was really affected by the socializing that I was doing and I slept worse and I felt worse as a result of that. So for me, now that I'm back into the new year, I've actually missed the work that I've been doing. So so now I'm back into work, my sleep pattern is just better. So I can then set my alarm for 6.30, 7.00 every single day, and that's a non-negotiable for me. And I'm going to bed slightly earlier as a result of that, because I'm not doing the whole dinners and the family events which I love doing. But it takes a toll after a while, so I just have to. For me, routine is everything in life, so it takes its toll absolutely that consistency side.

:: 08:23

See, this is something I really struggle with, but I think I'm I might be slightly different in the way I like to approach this. This is just me here. It says set the same bedtime and wake up at the same time every day, even weekends. Your brain craves consistency more than quality quantity. This is where I feel like I'm slightly different. I touched on it earlier and I'm trying to get a bit better. But some days, you know, I could sleep six hours and I'll feel amazing, I'll feel really good.

I kind of go a bit off feeling you know, if I need that extra 45 minutes, you know I I have no problem. I don't try and not beat myself up anymore over that. Like you know, far should I go and take that extra 45 minutes? Am I being lazy? It's kind of just the way like I've got to know my body and my brain like really well and that's kind of the way I work best, where I'm like you know what, if I do wake up, I can wake up, but I know I'm not going to be very sharp for the first four hours of the day if I could take the extra four.

It's not like taking the piss, being like I'm going to take an extra four hours. It's like that extra bit of time for me a lot of the time if I'm super overstimulated or stressed or I haven't slept properly because of those things. I find that really important at the moment, especially with work stuff that's getting on top of you and the days are a bit darker. That you know this. Know this is January time, now that January February time, I just I need a bit more sleep sometimes because my quality during the night dropped off a lot more. So yes, I completely agree with that consistency side, but for me personally, I'm looking for quality a lot of the time. That's subjective, though.

:: 09:57

I love what you said there because we touched on it with Dr Mark a couple of weeks ago and he said about the darkness of days. We're outside less, therefore our brain tricks us into thinking it's lighter, darker than it is later. Therefore we get more sleepy earlier and I wonder how much of that is down to the ADHD that you've got. No-transcript actually is great that we're teaching people to and promoting routine. Actually, the other side of that is, if you need more, get more absolutely.

:: 10:37

And it comes back to the point what works for you?

What works best for you, what works best for joe, might not work best for me, and vice versa there, right, yeah, the second one we're going to talk about and this is one I think we can all agree on, to be honest is getting natural sunlight within 30 minutes of waking.

If you're like me, the minute you'll wake up you'll roll over and grab your phone straight away and wake up to a really loud alarm that stresses you out of your sleep. I have a little thing called a lumi lamp. I haven't been using it much at the moment I have to be completely honest but what I am doing is leaving one of my curtains open, so in the morning I've got a bit of that natural light coming through just to wake up to. But trying to get outside in those first 30 minutes of waking is the best advice it gives here to reset your eternal clock and also boost alertness. I know a lot of us feel very tired and very fatigued in the morning when we wake up a bit drowsy. If you're looking to boost that alertness side of things, then getting that natural sunlight on your face whether that's going outside or opening your curtains nice and early. I think that's such an important one absolutely spot on.

:: 11:40

I'm exactly the same. So for me, I see my curtains completely open. I'm a bit weird, so I like having natural light waking me up in the morning. Uh, for me that plus water. I'm trying to get into journaling on the back of the retreat I did with annalee cool, so that in the morning I'm trying to do a bit more. Less time on the phone in the morning and then more time sort of coming around, naturally, going downstairs, making my coffee, saying hello to the dogs, and I can come up and then I can start my day way more refreshed than I would if I just monged out on my phone like a vegetable.

:: 12:06

Absolutely. And the last one I'm giving here is create an evening wind down ritual which you could tie journaling into right big time.

:: 12:15

I think mine's almost for a role reversal of that. I don't journal as much in the evening as much as I should. Maybe I should do both, but, um, for me the same as waking up. I need routine, so for me it's watch a bit of tv, winding down after sort of either chatting to you in the evening or something like podcasting bits and bobs, and then I'll put my phone away and then I'll jump into bed and I'll just chill for a little bit, try and get back into reading as well, which is something I need to do a lot more of.

So I I just I go into a bit of a lull rather than trying to sort of go from a high of working and being on my phone and watching tv trying to crash straight away. I just can't do. I take a long time to switch off. So taking that time after I've eaten dinner which again I'm trying to do a little bit earlier um, you know, once I brush my teeth, have a shower and stuff, I like to have like an hour or so where I'm not on my phone and I can sort of slowly unwind. But it's quite a hard process to sort of undo yeah, that's where I suck.

:: 13:02

It says here no screens 30 minutes before bed, not because of the blue light situation but to calm your mind, and I agree with that. But I find that so hard, like I just do. I feel like my worst enemy is when I'm on my phone right to the very last second I need to fall asleep and then it will take me 30 minutes from there to fall asleep. But then if you actually add that up accumulatively over the years and weeks, then that 30 minutes of me you putting my phone down, trying to sleep straight away and taking 30 minutes to get to sleep, if you add that up, you know I could wake up 30 minutes earlier than I normally do and probably feel the same as if I just switch my phone off half an hour before, if that makes sense and what I normally do. So it's a really interesting one to like pick at, because if you do 30 times 365 whatever it it is people listening that's over a thousand hours. No, that's 180 hours or whatever it is that I'm now missing out on because I'm too busy scrolling my phone. Please, no one clip that thing of me saying it's a thousand hours. That was horrendous maths, as you can see, this is why we like doing podcasting and we're not mathematicians, uh. But yeah, those are our three things locking your sleep rhythm, which obviously I'm not very good at at the moment, but hopefully something I'm trying to get a bit better at in 2025, this year in particular.

I again suck at and something: 2025

We're looking to do more myth busting down the line, aren't we, joe? We are indeed, mate. Let us know your thoughts below and what you'd like to see next on the myth busting series. Episode one of the myth myth busting series was all about sleep. We hope you enjoyed. For the meantime, I'm tom, I'm joe and this is inside of mind mind bites. Take care, guys.