InsideAMind of 2 Guys About To Take On Hyrox Switzerland | #32

:: 00:00

Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Tom, I'm Joe and this is Inside of Mine. Today it's just the two of us and we're going to pick through some bits on everything health and fitness, the psychology of competition and one important topic on why we do hard things. Just to clarify, joe and I are not experts in these areas, just two guys sharing their views and sharing some pretty epic stats along the way. The first thing I wanted to touch on is 2025. This should come out around the start of February time and that's when Joe and I are going to be competing in our High Rocks on February 8th. Is it February 8th, february 9th, 9th that you compete? On February 9th in Switzerland? We're going to be competing in our first ever High Rocks. Joe, how's it going? It's okay.

:: 00:47

I think you took to the high rocks being easy than I did, because your sort of bread and butter is more of a crossfit style fitness. Anyway, since you've been joining march, on which I know you really love, which you can probably touch on in a second, I think for me my sort of parameters around fitness and stopping rugby which again we'll come on to later is been essentially weight training. So my, my cardio is just absolutely well, was nowhere um, but I've actually really enjoyed the challenge mix.

I think I needed it yeah, I think it's something to aim towards right one million, one million percent, and we'll touch on sort of having goals and stuff, obviously post retiring from rugby. But for me I'm enjoying it more than at the beginning, I think, starting to. I think for me it was the balance between doing weight training and the cardio side of things, having the time to do it, which I'm sure you'll touch on as well, but I think that's where march on's been really good for you. What about you?

:: 01:32

absolutely just to clarify for those of you who are listening or watching, who don't know what high rocks is it's basically eight kilometers of running and then it'll be a kilometer of running and then an exercise like a skier or a row or burpee, broad jumps in between each kilometer. So overall we're looking to get a time of 1 hour 15. That's our ideal time. Yeah, please, uh, don't over get that. But mentally that's the time we're aiming for 1 hour 15, 8 kilometers of running and then loads of exercise in between, pretty non-stop, which is going to be good. It's going to be a nice little boys trip which we're looking forward to.

But yeah, I find on my end I didn't realize how unfit I got. I do a lot of cardio based stuff, like crossfit stuff, but like actually physically running, I didn't realize how unfit I got, like my body. It was not necessarily my lungs, but just like that feeling of running for like eight, ten kilometers. I haven't done that in such a long time. Or, like with rugby, it would always be quite stop start. It would be things like um, broncos, broken broncos and that type of fitness, whereas like just running for 10 kilometers, that's pretty new to me and I actually find it incredibly hard and that's probably why I almost buggered my knee at the moment as we were talking about before. Yeah, getting back from that tell me more about that.

:: 02:45

What? What happened then?

:: 02:47

uh, honestly, I think it's. I think it's a hard one to pinpoint. I'm going to assume it's running, because I haven't had a knee problem before and now I'm running long periods of time I seem to have a knee problem. So I think it's just a bit like the tendon just flaring up. Nothing serious, we'll just ignore it like normal, but I reckon that's what it is.

:: 03:07

So maybe any runners any runners listening to this, watching this. Get some comments in below, let us know. Get some tips on how to run properly with a month to go. We've got a month to spare, so we've got a bit of time.

:: 03:17

They're just thinking, mate, you run eight kilometers like why?

:: 03:19

are you being such a?

:: 03:20

weird, my knee is hugging. I literally can't bend my knee just shows how bad of a state I got into on the whole high rock side of things. I think one thing with joe and I talked about before something I know you guys have left a lot of comments on is that competition side. Having stopped rugby, you know that's, that was a massive competition side for me, like mentally as well. That would be like that was scratched that itch for me. You've retired from rugby now as well. Have you found that high rocks has kind of scratched that itch, that preparation? For I know we haven't done the actual event yet, or we will be doing it when this comes out but, has that been scratching your itch?

:: 03:55

yeah, for the most part, and it really reminds me of a conversation we had with elliot a win, where we spoke about when he stopped playing rugby. Very suddenly even more suddenly than me he found his the sort of itching the scratch in crossfit, but it didn't tick all the boxes, but it picked. It picked enough of them. So out of the three or four things he really missed from not having rugby, it was two or three of them. He found the other two or three elsewhere and that's that's why it's been really helpful for me.

Like I said to you earlier I think at the start I said that it's it's been something that I've needed to do, because I found the cycle of what I was doing in the gym quite boring and I needed a bit of a push, which I was getting from rugby all the time, because it's constantly something to head towards, like a game coming up on the horizon or a new challenge or a new team you haven't played before, so for me I needed the change. So I'm really grateful to you for introducing the, the idea of doing a high rocks.

I won't thank you on the day, I hate you for it, but I think um during it, yeah, which reminds me, I think, if we do like a sim or two between now and then sorry, simulation for the don't know, we would try, and anyone who asks you about it you they'll suggest doing simulation, simulating the actual event at least once or twice before the event itself. So tom and I, although we're quite far apart geographically, we're going to try and get together in the middle somewhere and try and simulate the event itself, if we can.

:: 05:13

Absolutely. I think that sort of just coming back to that competition side of things for me personally hasn't scratched that itch yet Interesting. But what it's done is it's instilled a bit of discipline. I've always been pretty disciplined with stuff, but like it's that thought where if I don't do it, or I don't do the exercises or I don't follow this program, I'm probably gonna like a mug when we're out there in switzerland, yeah, and that like mentally I don't want to do that. I don't want to stand there and look at you and be like I'm like I'm fucked after like two kilometers in. Like mentally that would really, that would really drain me. Yeah, that's kind of pushed me on that whole discipline side.

But I think when we're there and we, we watch on the saturday, we run on the sunday, I think that whole high rock side you'll get like the sort of butterflies from it. You'll see the people running. I think that's when I'll be like, okay, sweet, and then the next time we do it which I assume we'll do another one, I hope so. I reckon that's going to be that preparation. Then that is going to scratch the itch because I know what's coming. I've never actually been to an event before. I've just seen them online, but when we're actually in the arena, I think that's when I'll get that itch. Well, you and me both.

:: 06:19

I thought the only thing I can compare it to because I've done crossfit style things in the past, whether it be in the gym, but nothing on that sort of level. The only thing I can compare it to is when I was preparing for the half marathon I did the beginning of this year. Is I I actually hate running, which for someone entering a high rocks is really stupid, because essentially it's a running race. You can do all the strength work in the world, but anyone I've ever asked about it, um, I said just don't want the fit, I don't know the strength, just run. There's just many runs you can between then and the event, because you're essentially working for a minute or two in the events themselves, but the runs you're doing for, yeah, up to five minutes, you're doing eight times, so you're running for a lot more than you're working in the events.

Um, and so when I was doing half marathon training excuse me is when it came down to the day is I actually quite enjoyed it because the atmosphere and the crowd you're with. So I'm hoping that, whilst I hate running on a treadmill because it's so boring, is when it comes to the day and you can see someone you're looking to chase and you're pushing each other on. I'm hoping we get that sort of buzz and, like you, I've not enjoyed it, but I've liked the change and I've liked the sort of the stimulation I've got as a result of mixing up my training, for sure.

:: 07:31

I wanted sort of the stimulation I've got for as a result of mixing up my training for sure. I wanted to touch on that competition side as well. Like I don't know how you feel, but with rugby I was like unbelievably competitive, unbelievably competitive. Like if I lost or if I messed up, I would literally like not speak to anyone the whole way home. Yeah, basically just go to my room. I'd be like devastated.

I look back on that now and like I read a little post the other day about you know, is being overly competitive like actually damaging for you mentally and can it kind of be unhealthy? I feel like this time around I'm not that I have I've like lost that competitive edge. I'm competitive in every aspect, as you know, yeah, but like I feel like this time it feels a lot healthier. I don't know what it is, but I feel like I'm not like, say, we go in there and we're going to get like, say, we do get one hour 22 or something Like yeah, I'll be a bit like, oh, like our goal was one hour 15, but I'm not going to let it like destroy my whole day and destroy two days after. I don't know what that is this time, but I feel like and to me I actually feel a lot like better mentally going into it comfortable, doing sports. I've got so distraught every time I lost. I just hate to lose. Yeah, I feel good for it.

:: 08:36

It's a really good point you make and it really reminds me, I think. I think it's also maturity side of things as well. I think when I, when I grew up, I'm a bit of a sore loser. I hate losing at best times. I can remember some times, particularly when I was at school and into my early 20s.

I remember playing rugby and every time I'd lose a game I would take it really personally, even if it wasn't an individual sport.

I would go home and I would stew over the things I could have done better and I would be really annoyed on behalf of my teammates who would go out and get pissed afterwards.

And get pissed afterwards I'll be like how can you go and get battered after a game where you've not you've not performed and you've not been at your best? And I I found that I to that person, I thought I'm putting the work in and I'm taking this so personally. How can you go and get shit faced after a game of rugby that you've lost? You deserve to lose and you've not been good at um over time and as I've got older, I feel like my I've tried as best I can to live more in the moment, enjoy the process rather than the outcome itself. So that's what I've tried to focus on more. But it's been a hard slog, mate, because I'm like you, I'm exceptionally competitive and I want to win at all costs, and it does bring the worst out of me and the best in certain situations like, hopefully, the high rocks yeah, it's a funny one.

:: 09:37

I wanted to talk about, you know, playing rugby, past competitions. What lessons have you learned from these past competitions, say in rugby or sport, that have, kind, of like, shaped your high rocks preparation? It's a great question.

:: 09:50

I feel like the, the teamwork element, which obviously we haven't done a lot of, because I don't want to let you down, and I'm sure you're the same as me, like I don't want to get up on the day and start running and my legs are gone after two kilometers because I'll be distraught. And I mean you touched on the second ago is I don't want to let you down. So I've I've gathered this, which in solo sports you don't get a lot of in team sports, I work as hard as I possibly can do to make my job easier for my teammates. I want that to do. I would rather do that to you as well. So I've given, I've gained a perspective on teamwork and and sort of my the ethics around um working for your teammates or your partners. I feel like I I'm using you as almost like a muse for me to work harder. If that makes sense, yeah completely agree.

:: 10:37

I think one thing I kind of picked up on and I don't know how you're going to feel on the day, and this is what I see a lot is about like pre-fueling pre-fueling.

Obviously I'm not an expert. You've been a personal trainer coach for 10 plus 12 plus years now, so obviously this is kind of your bread and butter, this whole thing. But one thing I always picked up on with rugby is I'd have like a super like high carb pasta or whatever it was before I go out and play. And I don't know, this is just me, I don't know the science behind this, but I watched quade cooper do the exact same thing. He started talking about like how he'd have big pasta dishes before games and how he'd feel like super bloated and actually kind of fatigued. My back end of playing rugby. I started doing like big bowls of mints in the morning and more protein-based mints with, like you know, egg on and vegetables and I felt like unbelievable when I was playing I don't know if it was just a coincidence I did about four or five times.

That's gonna be my one of my biggest takeaways going into this high rocks and the preparation as a whole, like the sort of health and fitness side of things. Yeah, especially like pre-fueling. That's like so important. You can't go in on an empty stomach but then I can't run if I'm feeling like super bloated the whole time. Yeah, so that's kind of my like main goal this time. I'm really curious to see if you know that was rugby, will this translate? I'm going to do like a big mince bowl in the morning as disgusting as that sounds to probably some of you big mince bowl in the morning and fill up on that front. I feel like that was one of the biggest things I took from the nutritionists down at ealing that I've been bringing into high rocks yeah, I mean, nutritional science has advanced so much, um, in the last couple, I mean in the last five, ten years even.

:: 12:13

But even you know, when our dads were playing rugby back in the day, it was the. The science wasn't quite what it was, and they're having a cigarette at half half time and beers on the night before. So you know, we've we've come a long way in the last, you know, 20 odd years or so, 30 years, but even the last couple of years. I mean. We spoke to someone at the one of events we went to a couple of weeks ago. They said that beetroot was one of the best things they've taken pre-race and I said what do you mean? I know beetroot is very good for you, but I didn't. I wasn't sure about this or the antioxidant side of things and how good it was for you. Like literally an hour before the race they would say they'll just shoot a load of um beetroot pre-race and they said that the cramps just weren't existing anymore. So that's amazing. So write that one down, so me and you can sort of garner a load of beetroot pre-race.

But I'll be very curious to see people listening to this and watching this, that you know their tips and tricks for particularly running style events. We're doing over a prolonged period of time. It's not 100 meters, you're doing more than like a 5, 10k, for example. Um, and obviously with, with the events in between, it's going to be the lactic acid is going to be pretty real. So I wondered if anyone had any sort of um, ancient remedies that their grandmother's grandmother gave them. I'll be really curious to see what people have tried put that in the comments, if you do you have anything where you're like this was super helpful to me.

:: 13:23

I was gonna say I've like watched quite a few like long distance runs, so like people running a marathon and stuff, I I see pickle juice a lot, I think I I think I chun if I was running around high rocks drinking pickle juice. But that's just me. But I see pickle juice a lot, uh, as like a thing. I don't know that's like a fatigue side of things. I haven't looked this up, but you're just saying. You're just saying then beetroot and also like red tart juice. Is it red tart?

:: 13:50

red tart maybe it's not really, or something but just on on pickle juice, just quickly, for example. I think that makes sense. I saw, because I've seen in, even in premier league football they've I'm pretty sure I've seen someone who was going down with horrific cramp and they literally had. I mean, it was in like a sachet, so it wasn't like out of a jar where they unscrewed it and poured some juice into their mouth, but it was like a literally a sachet of pickle juice and it was like all the things you could possibly have. With the advancement of today's footballing world, between billions of pounds on science and the idiosyncrasies that go into it, it's incredible that there's literally a vial. This vial of pickle juice was enough for them to stop cramping. So maybe that's something you can look into as well for sure, make a little brand pickles for athletes.

:: 14:32

There's a business idea for anyone. Patent it here, if anyone takes it for sure. I want to talk about um, burnout in exercise. This is something I experience a lot. This is something I had a comment on my Instagram the other day, which is why I'm bringing it up.

That sort of burnout in where you're having like a 10-week, 12-week preparation, as we've had. I'm going to be completely honest, there's been quite a few days where I've been like, oh, I can't do it today, mentally stressed, the last thing I want to do is go out and run 10k when I don't actually enjoy running and it's like it's. It's that kind of side of things where I like the higher it's holding me accountable, so I'm doing that less. But then there's also that burnout side, which is what I wanted to talk to you about now, which is what the comment was I had on the instagram, being like, how do you stop that? How do you minimize it? Because if you're working such a busy schedule, a lot of the time you just don't want to do what you're doing. Or you'll do it for three weeks and then be like, oh, and tailor off and kind of burn out and then pick it back up towards the end. Then you actually get to race day and it doesn't work. What's your advice there?

:: 15:37

Yes, it's a great question and probably very, very common. I don't think you can always avoid burnout, because sometimes it just hits you and you're not expecting it. So it's not like you can feel creeping up on you, but if you are the kind of person who's prone to it, I feel like it's just listening to your body more and looking after yourself as best you can. It sounds a really stupid thing to say, but they're not an obvious thing to say as well, but for me, in my personal experience it was whenever I found myself burning out is to try and slow down, and I used to be really, really bad at doing that because I felt like by slowing down I'm I'm failing myself in some way. But actually, the more I listened to myself and did, I was able to sort of recoup the energy back and then take a day or two off.

Or, if I didn't want to do that 510k you were talking about a second ago is do something different, do something else, whether it be walking a 5k or walking a two and a half 3k or going to lift some weights in the gym if you don't want to do a run.

So I'm still completing something. I'm still doing something in the gym is positive. That has a positive outcome on my psyche, but also realizing that days off are okay and needed as well. So I feel like for me, if you were to tell me 10 years ago, when I was like really competing and pushing myself in the gym um more so than I am now, to the point where I was making myself sick so not literally, but I was making myself so mentally unwell because I was pushing myself so much and I've now got a nice-ish balance of listening to my body and my brain.

When I'm not in a good frame of mind and I've done too much, I can pull back slightly. So I feel like it's just really sort of becoming more in tune with yourself, um, brain and body sort of in line and and sort of listening to your body a bit more. And nutritionally, sleep all these things have massive, massive impacts on our life. And when life gets on top of us, like with our works I mean, you know, I mean when your work schedule is on top of you it's really hard to have a balance.

:: 17:20

Absolutely I think it's just hard to like flip the switch a lot of the time, because I find a lot of times say, I've had a stressful day or a super long day, not even too stressful. You know you try and go home but then somebody will come through like you'll get a call or there's bits of work that you didn't pick up on and then like mentally, I find that switch really hard to snap out and go right, I'm home like I'm gonna go exercise and then I'm gonna go hang out and switch off. That's something I'm like trying to really figure out how I do that effectively. And I I don't believe I literally spoke to someone in the gym this morning about this. Shout out, amen. If you're watching this, he was just saying I don't think you switch off, I think you just learn different methods of prioritizing certain areas and I think you're right, like I think I think he was absolutely right with that.

I think it's hard to switch off for a lot of people but you've just got to find your priority and then put your priority into different areas whether it is your fitness side of things and then save it is got too much and you are super overstimulated, just not beating yourself up about it.

That's something I've done a lot recently which we talk about, so I'd always hate myself for not doing it or not executing it. I know I'm not like mentally weak, I know I'm not being lazy, I just know sometimes it's just best for me not to do it, like I won't go and do it and feel better sometimes. I just know my body, I'll go and I'll actually just feel worse doing it. So I think it's just understanding that sometimes you're not being lazy, not being unproductive, your body just needs a rest. As long as you're not doing it like every other day or whatever it is, and it's not a common occurrence and I think that's that's like a good thing to do and it's good to be self-aware. Enough goes back to the self-awareness piece that Jamie Clements talks about the other day yeah, you couldn't.

:: 19:05

You couldn't say any better. I also feel like, just on you, if you are someone who is sort of neurodiverse, or you have an ad, you have ADHD, things affect you differently, to say a neurotypical person. So for you, for example, with the overstimulation of life, right like work, or wherever you are in the world, every day is different and it's that's an exhausting place to find yourself. So it's again, it's that self-awareness piece, that where, the more you experience through life and the more you go through life and the sort of the, the trials and tribulations that come with that, you will learn to sort of like just co-regulate yourself better than maybe you would before.

Um, so it's good that you're trying to find a balance for you, and it's not always going to be easy and some days will be harder and easier than others. But I feel like it's just learning. Like you say, it's for you switching off I mean, I can vouch for this. Switching off for you is really really difficult. So sometimes you just force yourself to and that's again comes back to the trying to avoid that burnout and just sort of becoming more self-aware of how you're feeling and mentally sort of where you're at sort of where you're at.

:: 20:06

I think I want to touch on this topic as well. Off off the back of that and it's like one thing I find hard I don't know if people listen to us watching this feel the same is you really want to do hard things. You want to really push yourself. You want to push yourself in the gym, you want to push yourself at a fitness challenge, you want to push yourself at work, in relationships, like really push yourself and do hard things to the max, but your brain just can't handle it a lot of the time. And I wonder what this like underlying thing is for myself personally and for a lot of people listening to this, like a lot of our friends, to really want to do hard things. What's your view?

:: 20:42

on that. It's a great, it's a really really good question. And I had the same conversation with someone recently where we spoke about how, in this day and age where we aren't, so, if you rewind sort of 500 to a thousand years ago, we were sort of hunter gatherers and we had the stresses and strains of hunter gatherer for our food and we have to, like, fight someone off and and in this day and age we're not used to it. So I feel like the, the stimulation anxiety we have in everyday things are an exam or, uh, going for a run or a meeting. I mean, it's almost. We're almost not designed for it, we're almost designed for like danger and we haven't got that. So I feel like our lives have become so easy for us that almost we need to push ourselves beyond the realms of what's comfortable.

And for me, the advice I give to anyone who is looking to push themselves into doing a half marathon or seeking this new challenge is one, work out why you're doing it and two, don't set those targets so far in advance that you'll give up at halfway.

And and we're all not all we all some people don't but for me and you we are just programmed the way that we want, uh, which we're almost chasing something. We're almost like always striving for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, and we can sometimes forget to live in the moment a little bit more. But, um, for me and you, it's just in our dna. We just program that way. It's for our parents and and you know ancestors of what they've given us as well, like how we've been raised and the, like you said, the competitive element you've got from your rugby and how you, how you're born. I think that's just what we, that's just how we are. Yeah, we can't always teach that to people. Sometimes some people just aren't that, aren't meant to be that way, and that's just. That's absolutely fine as well that's nature instead of nurture.

:: 22:21

Yeah, 100, I was. I was reading the other day on a study that 85 of participants in extreme fitness events report greater mental clarity and confidence after completing the challenge and I thought that was like a really interesting side of things, because I always think this as well is like you almost need a bit of self-reassurance a lot of the time. So doing a hard event, doing like a marathon, doing a high rocks at you know a really fast speed, or competing at a high level, you know the mental clarity and that sort of like self-confidence that can give you and can take back into a day-to-day lives and like sit down at night and be like, yeah, I fucking did that, like I did that. That's like I think that's the the feeling a lot of people chase it. I know that's one I chase a lot as well.

I just found it interesting really about how 85 percent of participants in those extreme fitness events report greater mental clarity. There must be some sort of correlation, which a lot of people are chasing, that sort of confidence side. Like you said, you know we're not gathering food. Well, the majority of people aren't gathering food anymore, we're just going to the supermarket. So I don't know. That's almost replacing it. It is, you know, like in a confidence again big, big time, I feel like.

:: 23:34

I feel like most most things we do nowadays is handed to us. There's no, there's no, um sort of danger, there's no stress on our lives. I mean, we do have stress, but it's completely different now. The world has changed, that you know everything's at a click of a phone, um, and there's no stress on our lives. I mean, we do have stress, but it's completely different. Now the world has changed, that you know everything's at a click of a phone, um, and there's there's no striving for things anymore, which is why all these ridiculous events are being created, like walking across the desert, and it's becoming more and more extreme, to the point of like pushing, pushing and pushing, because we don't have these everyday situations where we're having to fight for a mate. So we're not what you know hunting our food, we're not going days, we're hungry, and and the stress that would have been a part of our everyday being 500 to a thousand years ago isn't like that anymore. Hence why these hyroxes and these extreme events are coming about in the first place.

Um, but what I would say about those people who are constantly chasing something is I urge anyone who's listening and watching to this and this is. This is obviously it occurs for me and you as well is is make sure you're living in the moment where you don't just achieve that half marathon pace or the great high rocks time and go what next? It's, it's what next? And like what's the next thing. It's important to have a moment to yourself where you're not just well I'm guilty of this as well, by the way is filming my workouts, posting them online for everyone else to give me credit for them and then being like okay, on to the next one. It's important that I take a moment to really appreciate what me and you are doing and what we'll do on the day, and hopefully we can really celebrate that. Irrespective of the time, I think it's really important that you take a moment to live in the moment, rather than chasing those goals in six months and then six months, and then, once the six months comes around, you're like OK, what next?

:: 25:11

I think that's hard that's something we talked about before is that sort of mindset of things. Again, that's something I struggle with personally. I know a lot of people listening to this feel the same. It's where you go for a goal and you have a set goal in mind. You're like I'm gonna dominate this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna win, and when I get there it's gonna be amazing. But then the minute you get there, you're like, oh right, okay, I've done it now. And then you look back and then the thing you appreciate most was the journey, the journey going to that final goal.

The final goal is everyone's. You know, I need to get this, I need to make a load of money, I need to run this time, I need to do this. But this is what I'm trying to be a bit more wary about. We have a goal for high rocks of 1 hour 15 that we've set. But the thing is, if we hit that 1 hour 15, I'm sure we'll be chuffed for about 15 seconds and, yeah, it might look cool that we did it in an hour 15, but if we look back, it's going to be the actual process of the running side of it getting there on the friday and the saturday, the whole journey leading to that hour or whatever score we do come up with. That's the main bit and I think it's just again being self-aware enough and like going through those things I'm starting to piece that together that regardless of the outcome, I'm probably not going to be satisfied. So I need to enjoy the journey a bit more well said, mate.

:: 26:32

Yeah, absolutely spot on. I could agree more, I think that's just.

:: 26:35

I think the whole side of the high rocks is going to be great. I think endurance sport as well is when you were talking before I was. I need to need to ask this have you heard of the Marathon de Sable? Name rings a bell.

Marathon de Sable is the sickest event. It's like 250 kilometers in the desert. It's an ultra marathon. So you run for five days. The overall event goes for six and it's basically doing an ultra marathon every day in the desert. So Spencer Matthews did it. He came like 59th. It's an insane event but I just feel like more people are pushing towards those like extreme levels. You see people like david goggins, for example, those people really pushing this like narrative. I think it's really cool to see because I feel like 10 years ago there might be a select few who were doing this stuff, but now, with the rise of social media and that side of things, you're seeing more people sign up and like I don't think a thousand people would have signed up for the marathon de sabla 10 years ago to run 250 kilometers in the desert and I wonder that must be unbelievably hard. But I wonder what that would do to you mentally when you come back to reality after that physically and mentally like it would.

:: 27:43

It would, and I'm sure people have died doing it. It's an absolute beast of an event to do. I don't know a great deal about the event itself. I've seen, I've seen on social media about spence matthews doing it. Looks absolutely insane. It almost makes you realize, like, where does it end? Like, where do these extreme sports end? It'll be like let's travel to the moon and do a marathon on there instead. Is this constant like? Is this constantly like raising the bar?

:: 28:04

on the things constantly raising the bar. We'll be doing marathons up Everest at some point. It will be. That'll be a good race. You know the Everest marathon. I don't know how long I'll tune into that. Yeah, mate, that'd be good if you documented that. On like Red Bull, they sponsored the event extreme event, the Everest marathon.

I want to go on to this next part which, on like red bull, they sponsored the event extreme event, the everett marathon. That'd be great. I want to. I want to go on to this next part, which we had written down from someone who actually wrote into the show, wrote into my instagram account, and he asked how do you prepare mentally for physical challenges that seem overwhelming? I thought it was a great question and that whole mental preparation. So we talked about the physical preparation side. We talked about sort of like the running, building up your running, building up your aerobic base, getting going a bit more. Just on the high rocks front as a whole, in any physical challenge again, whether it's rugby with us, whether it's a high rocks, whether it's just a park run, whether it's a game of hockey, whatever that might be, how do you prepare mentally and what do you find works best for you?

:: 29:06

it's a great. It's a really really good question, because we talk about the running, just put one foot in front of the other. But you can't do those things unless you have the mental fortitude to do it in the first place. So and that that counts for spencer matthews doing his crazy run in the desert all the way to someone who's doing their first capture, the 5k, it doesn't matter, it's all the same thing. So for me and the example I constantly give is is the half marathon, because from some, for two people me and you, me more so is I I absolutely hate running with a burning passion, but I know I need to do it and I enjoy the feeling once I've done the run. I just don't enjoy the process of starting in the first place, whereas I loved, I love, currently love and always will love lifting weights and that sounds really like you know ape thing to say, but I really get the enjoyment out of. I love the feeling it gives me and physically I love the feeling. So for me, it doesn't really matter what your thing is.

Find something you enjoy doing and to start from the very beginning. If you're trying to look into things to do, we've, we talk there's a lot is is if you're looking to start tiddlywinks to chess, to bowls, to rugby or football, is is remember that everyone starts from the very beginning once. So don't aim your lofty heights of starting for spurs on the weekend is, start from the very beginning, from that ground level. Like me and you, when we first started rugby, we didn't have a clue what we were doing, but then, 20 years on, I could put you into any nat 2 team and you'd absolutely fly. So is, start from the very beginning. Don't take your sights too high.

And yeah, and have the self-belief and fortitude and keep turning up is what I'd say as well. Keep turning up every day, and which I guess contradicts what we said earlier about when you need days off, take them, but when you're, I think also when you're on, yeah, absolutely, absolutely is. And it comes with the self-awareness massively is big, big time. The self-awareness piece is is repeating that constantly. And yeah, when you're on, you're on, yeah, 110%. What do you think?

:: 30:56

I think preparing mentally is the way I kind of read this question was like what do I do, like pregame, okay, or like what would I do on that front of things? I think it's that front. I'm not quite big on visualization, I mean, I don't know if I was doing it the proper way, but for example, when I was playing rugby or playing cricket, which are my two sports, you know, I stand out there. For if it was cricket, for example, I'll go with the cricket route. I stand out there on the wicket and I look around with my bat and I pretend there's someone running into bowl. I really practice my shots. I practice where I'm going to hit my strong points and leave my weak points. I really like get a grasp of everything, and obviously that's an example from cricket, but that's. I think that's the best thing mentally for me. And what I'm going to do on the high rocks day is when we go on the saturday to watch it. I'm going to picture myself on each event. I'm going to picture the speed I'm going at. I'm going to picture how I'm breathing. You know, I don't want to picture myself like fully out of breath, going the whole time, but I want to picture myself like feeling confident, running with you, like running fast, feeling good, and then going like really hard on the event. That that's kind of how I like to do things, that whole visual eight visualization point of view, and then also mentally.

Something that really helps me before like physical challenges is is music and if I'm quite overwhelmed, like with rugby, this is probably quite quite a niche thing to say, but like I had the same song I listened to before every single game for about six, seven years since I was like 14, I was listening to that song.

It was Foo Fighters, the Pretender.

I'd listened to that before every single game because it was a bit of a routine for me before every rugby game I played before I went on and I knew that when I was feeling overwhelmed and the crowds were bigger and bigger and the teams were getting a higher level, that mental side of things every time I listened to that song would almost flash me back to when I was like 15 and just playing for fun, and that would really help me like mentally, like get in the right mood, being like it's just a game and this is a rugby example, just a game or cricket example, and then it would always flash me back to that and those are kind of the two things I do mentally.

Music helped me a lot and like that routine side of the music, I knew before every game I had this song on and if I didn't, then you know I'd find a way to play it, even it was just through my phone. And then that visualization side I love to stand on the pitch. I love to pitch myself running through someone in rugby or like tackling them hard or like moving quickly or kicking the corner and visualizing myself putting it right in the corner or through the post off a tee. That's helped me massively.

:: 33:32

They're my two things yeah, I think just a touch on that as well. I think it's really important what you said. I think routine in general I think helps most people. If you are someone who is very grassroots level of any sport can be rugby, cricket or anything in between I think routine has certainly helped me in that. And the music side of things is why I love music when I'm when I'm training or running, it helps me escape.

Or a podcast even if I'm feeling really stressed, I'm out on a walk sometimes I whack one of our podcasts on and listen to it back and I find that really soothing.

So I think whatever works best for you and I think it's about trial and error, it's about trying new things, trying sort of things that work best for you. If it doesn't, you move on to the next thing, a different sort of hobby or a different sport or a different sort of anything that you think might work for you. It might well not whatever works best for you and your visualization before a game might not necessarily work best for me, but for me it was. If I turn up early and I'm there, I'm visualizing, I'm doing stretching, mobility and I'm on the pitch assessing the conditions, that for me was big for me as well. So for me, routine for me created those good habits and that created all those good things that come with that, which then the stepping stones to becoming a better sports person or whatever hobby is you're doing will help mentally, which again helps with the activity itself.

:: 34:45

I want to ask on the High Rocks day we'll keep on High Rocks, obviously. When this comes out, this will be we should be there, I think. So we'll keep it on that High Rocks side of things. On your High Rocks day that day, I think, the race starts at 2pm. Could be wrong. I'll double check this. For us, the race starts at 2pm. What's your morning looking like? What's your morning routine looking like? And the night before, what have you done as well? So for any aspiring athletes, you've had 12-13 years as a PT performance athlete what's your morning looking like? Yeah, again.

:: 35:18

It's a really good question. I think if it's a 2pm start I'd still get up at the same time. I wouldn't get up any later. I'd still get up about 6, 37 o'clock, slow morning. But I have a biggish breakfast, not too much coffee, and I'd save some snacks like a beetroot number we talked about earlier on um, and some snacks pre-race and take that with me. I'd have a biggish breakfast consisting of usually like high nutrition, but again laying off like too much carbs, because I'll have had quite a lot of carbs in the days running to it.

So on the thursday, friday, quite carby, protein filled meals. The night before will be again, will be a protein filled meal morning, or protein filled loads of eggs, like you said, mints, um, and then, I think, quite steady, I'd like to get there early. I'm not the kind of person who's going to rock up 10 minutes before, so I'd like to get there like at least hour, two hours before the race, like at minimum. So I'd like to get there, assess it, take it all in, get my surroundings, know where I'm supposed to be. Um, I'm quite anal, like that. I like to be prepared and then in the best possible, like discipline wise, I'm quite like on it, like that.

I'd like to get there early, um, so I don't have like. I wouldn't have a belly full of food either, like you said about being full and like having all sloshing around your system. I'd absolutely hate that. So get there nice and early, get prepped um load of stretching. Obviously, mobility wise, make sure I'm nice and warm and I see a lot of videos people preparing for and they'll actually do like a couple of k on the treadmill before it because they feel warmer they are. They'll actually get a couple of k in the first k. First two or three k is absolutely horrendous. You're not, your body's not used to it.

:: 36:46

So I'll be doing something like that as well yeah, see, that's a hard one because I, I agree morning, I I think I'll get up 7 38 high protein breakfast, probably go for a walk, feel good, get there early, exactly like you said. I hate the idea of like getting there and mentally having to feel rushed like. That's just like my worst nightmare. I like to get there early, visualize what I'm gonna do, absorb like the atmosphere, have a good stretch. See, this is a bit where I was like this is tough, is like that one to two kilometer run before.

It's like getting your second wind and we used to do that and we used to sweat out in the warm-up a lot of the time go absolutely guns blazing and then get your second wind going into the game. I feel like that can be quite hit or miss for me. For some reason, I feel like sometimes I just like will just not get my second wind and just be like completely burnt out. But I don't know, that's just, that's just like being unfit, whatever it is, but sometimes I feel great doing that and then other times I just feel like it negatively affects me. So I was actually thinking about this the other day. You know, do we do like a kilometer run outside like slowly just get our heart rate going or do like some burpees and pick up my heart rate. I was literally thinking about this morning you're absolutely right.

:: 38:04

I think whatever works best for some people doesn't work necessarily for others, but equally, just because you did the same thing last week, you feel absolutely knackered the week after doing exactly the same thing. So again, it completely depends on where your body's at. So for me, I left a few things off as well. I think electrolytes are a big one as well. So I'm massively, massive on like supplementation, which we'll come on to in a second as well.

I think supplementation pre-races is huge, like making sure your body's in the tip top shape, like I don't know um, your epsom salts in your bath days prior to that, to make sure your body's nice and relaxed, not doing too much in the days because you've already done the prep. You don't need to start doing loads of like a thousand burpee broad jumps on the thursday when we fly on the friday. It's just stupid. So another thing is going for a walk in the morning, so the weather's weather permitting like it's going out for a walk, getting some fresh air, loads of hydration. Obviously that's a massive one. And an hour before the race, I mean stew. I'll give him to this one the credit for when he suggested taking beetroot juice and we'll take a jug of beetroot juice with us and start glugging it the hour before the race you just feel really ill running purple everywhere just be like oh god, screwed me here.

:: 39:09

Yeah, cheers g. I want to talk about um supplements. As you said, we've got a few more questions from you guys, so thank you for writing stuff into our our instagram and personal instagram accounts. If you do want to contact us, just message us whenever. I'll attach both our instagrams and inside of mine pod instagram below. I just wanted to talk about supplements now, what sort of supplements are you taking at the moment? Do you have anything in mind that you'd recommend? Mentally and physically? What have you found really useful?

:: 39:36

yeah, we did a really good talk on this a while back and we spoke about the things that work best for us and for me, my absolute, absolute favorite go-tos have always been things like magnesium. I take that every single day and that's been helping my sleep. So, for me, sleeping has been one of my absolutely one of my biggest battles and I've tried as best I can to get on top of it with a good sleep routine, as as best I can. Like I said um. So for me, creatine, um, for training and obviously brain as well. If you're anyone looking into anything to do with the gym and cognitively, creatine is one of the best things you could be taking with very, very few side effects.

For anyone, magnesium is massive. For me, that's been a massive sort of help for my. My sleeping cod liver oil is one of the other ones I take sort of not for you, but as you get older, I think for me. I've said that my body's really quite creaky, particularly after a career of playing rugby. I thought that's that's definitely helped, even if it is just like, yeah, every single day. It's not non-negotiable for me. So, um, those are three main ones and a couple of ones thrown in as well that I sort of take either daily or bi-daily and I'll um. I try and be as strict as I can because I found that once I've started implementing supplements into my routine, I even if it is placebo I feel like it's massively helped the way I move, sleep and also my energy levels.

:: 40:50

I feel like they've just gone through the roof as well I think some of the best supplements um, there's a link down below for them we talk about all the time are your heights. They kind of cover every aspect of everything. I've taken your heights before. I think they're great. Um, the bottle is very cool as well. That sold me in the first place, but they're very good. Like they've got sleep ones, they've got, uh, mental performance ones mental fitness side of things and they kind of cover every aspect.

I take like quite a niche set of supplements. I like went through a phase and I remember like a couple years ago where I tried like hundreds of supplements. I like went through a phase. I remember like a couple years ago where I tried like hundreds of supplements to like find what worked best for me. I spent so much money on it, just like trying to understand supplements better. Creatine is unbelievable, not just for like physically, to like hydrate your body, but mentally, the cognitive side of things. There's so many studies coming out on creatine at the moment. Yeah, we're going to see a lot more like mental health creatine supplements with like different blends of mushrooms, and if I'm going full nerd on everyone here, then I reckon that's what we're going to see a lot more going down the line, or I would hope to see.

I take fish oil, like you do with dha, and that's incredibly good for cognitive function and also just creaky bones as uh, as I may be young but I'm still very sore all the time. Uh, I take power up by motion. Nutrition is arguably my favorite thing to take. None of these are sponsored, by the way. Power up by motion nutrition is amazing. It's a mix of mushrooms, vitamin b's, d's. It's unbelievable. I've taken that for five years now, like consistently, pretty much every single day, unless I was on holiday and I left it. And I also take a pine bark as well, these little supplements.

Pine bark really interesting it's. My old snc coach at rugby told us about it. If anyone wants the link for it I could send over a link it was. It was quite a niche one, but it's really good for, like um, testosterone levels and sort of like that side of things. So we were burning a lot of like testosterone or whatever goes on, like playing rugby or like doing high, high level fitness. It was basically just keeping your testosterone levels a bit higher. But naturally, you know you could take testosterone boosters, for example, but they're like the extreme versions. This kind of like maintained your testosterone and just makes me feel like really good. I'm not sure what it necessarily is, but I really noticed the difference, like mentally. I don't know that testosterone is helping mentally. Obviously we're not scientists, we're just two guys who try different things and read studies about things. But the pine bark side's been really, really cool as well, which is a niche one. I don't hear many people talking about it.

:: 43:32

I've not heard that. I've not heard a new one that's coming from me who's been in the industry for 12 years. I've not heard that. So I'll definitely get on that. And just on the your height stuff, I think since I've started using that, they are really good and they do hit every niche as well. Like everything you're after, will it be mentally, physically, sleep and I obviously I spoke about sleep earlier is it's an absolute, non-negotiable for me. So they are, they all they do.

:: 43:53

They do some really good stuff on there they're smashing a lot of their um products have blueberries in blueberries like really good for inflammation, which I think yeah, like putting blueberry extract into supplements to like reduce inflammation around the body. I thought I was smart, like I'd know I hadn't seen anything with blueberries in before I don't know why.

But then there's a lot of these extracts like we talked about, um, the cherry extract earlier, where I said red tart, pretty sure it's just cherry. I don't know where I got red tart from. Uh, talks about beetroot, like beetroot extract, things like that, red maca extract. All these things are like incredible for information and I actually think that's one of the pine box thing as well as information side of things. Just like taking information out of the body is like so important because people don't realize, like mentally, you'll be so much clearer from sure information side. And yes, it might not be massive amounts that are in these supplements, but you know they have the right measurements over a period of time. Don't know how you feel, call it plus, call it what it is placebo or not. I feel a massive difference if I'm not taking these supplements on all aspects than if I am 100% mate. Couldn't agree more.

listening, but it's all about: 2025

:: 45:26

Great question, and I think people I've spoken to about um new year's resolutions and I'm quite iffy on resolution so I feel like when people set their lofty heights of running a marathon by the end of the year, it's really not realistic and you're not really giving yourself enough sort of mental fortitude to aim towards that said thing. So I feel like for me I learned this from someone recently is is having a word in mind. Okay, I don't mind sharing my word with you. Is is. My word is freedom, to having more freedom to making choices, either financially or through work, or being able to explore my work in other areas, and that's how I'm going to live my life and all the goals I am going to achieve. So, in regards to fitness and work and finance and relationships and friendships, I like to have more freedom around those things. That's my chosen word for this year. I've not said it loud yet.

That's been my thing for this year, um, but to answer your question, for me, my sole focus over the last two or three months give or take has been the high rocks. So for me, is is being able to get to the high rocks and smash that with you, and I'm really, really looking forward to what happens there, and I know High Rocks for those that do know about it is quite a cliche experience for a lot of people and it's very sort of influencer. But I feel like being able to do this with you is a genuine honor, mate. I'm really looking forward to the whole experience of getting there traveling. The event itself is only an hour long long, but the whole four-day period I'm really looking forward to doing so. Beyond that, mate, I sort of take every day as it comes and I've got things I want to achieve by the end of this year, but, um, for now, short term, that's a massive one for me. I'm really looking forward to it. What about yourself? I love that freedom side.

:: 46:57

I think that's a really good one. I think for me I've just got a work goal I just want to grow my business as much as I can, um and like just really give it a good crack. I think it's taken so long to get going and I've been given, you know, lots of opportunities to be in the right doors and I think it's just about taking those opportunities and growing it as much as I can and like not losing my moral compass along the way. I don't. I deal with a lot of people in business now and I've seen a lot of people lose their moral compass.

And I think having good morals, being good to people, and like building really good team culture around what I'm doing, where I like I deeply care about the people I work with, like yourself as well, on the inside of mine I deeply care about, like everyone I I work with and I think that's that's my work one, my relationship one is just being more present. So being more present when I'm with my family, friends, my girlfriend you know I am someone that does find it hard to switch off. So I think, as we talked about earlier, kind of prioritizing certain areas and like prioritizing my time with my girlfriend to switch off my laptop when I am in bed. I'm in bed when I am at work. I'm at work and making those a priority instead of blending them together. I see a message on my phone and then sit in my bed on my laptop while she's lying next to me, or be downstairs in the living room talking to my mum but also be texting a work email at the same time. Obviously, sometimes you you have to do these things save. It is urgent, but like 90 of the time, just trying to separate the two a bit better.

So that would be my kind of two short-term ones, uh, and my long-term one is keep growing inside of mind as much as we can, I think, helping as many people as we can. I find, like, so much joy from doing this and we've talked about this a lot, the two of us it's just like how rewarding we find it and how much it actually helps us being able to hopefully help other people, the people listening to this, the people watching this. I think that's a really powerful thing and that's something that beats the feeling of making money or anything is being able to help other people through your stories, my stories and interviewing some really cool guests. So it would just be keep growing that and actually enjoying the journey, just focusing final destination.

I don't think we have a final destination which I actually love, like there's nothing like the trio we've talked about, where we've been, like we need to get here, we need to get to, you know, number one in the charts of something like cool. That'd be great. But we always just seem to talk about the journey and it's just like it. Take it day by day and just enjoy every second of it. I think we want to enjoy this year the most amen, absolutely amen.

:: 49:41

I think the sky's the limit. I think it's quite exciting to know that if this doesn't go any further than it is in terms of growth, then so be it. I'll be satisfied with that. I think we've done a really good thing so far and on what you said earlier about your work, I won't give too much away in terms of what you're doing at the minute, obviously, but I feel like you've plugged away a lot. I mean, I'm giving you sort of kudos to your face now, but if anyone watching and listening to this doesn't know that what tom doesn't do, what tom does behind the scenes, is just extraordinary, that the hours you put in it's starting to bear fruit, which is really exciting, mate. So congrats on that. I'm looking forward to seeing how the next couple of weeks go for you, mate appreciate you, brother yeah.