#7 - Mat Wilson - The Power of Mindset and Resilience

:: 00:00

Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Tom, I'm Joe and this is Inside of Mind. This is episode seven. A we are joined today by someone whose ideas have inspired thousands of people around the world and a personal idol of mine. It's an absolute pleasure to welcome a special guest, Matty Wilson. Matty, thanks for coming on the pod. Before we dive deep into conversation and we get stuck on the podcast and going all around it, could you tell the viewers a bit about you and a bit about your story?

:: 00:30

Yeah, I mean, you know in a nutshell, I'm a digital marketing agency owner, so that's my main business. I run an agency. I've been into marketing now for quite like 14 years now. I've been doing it, I think, which makes me feel old. But you know, I'm 37, got three kids, had three kids when I was very young. I was 24 when I had my third one. I'm married, run an event called EMC. That's about it in a nutshell, mate.

:: 00:58

It was a good resume to have. I think with podcasts like this, it's so nice to get an hour to talk to someone like yourself and really have conversations we don't really get to have if I was to meet you at EMC, etc.

:: 01:10

So when we met drunk at a party. Great way to meet when you were drunk at a party and you came up to me just after I'd gone to the toilet. I was like, yeah, I'm coming to your podcast.

:: 01:21

It's a way to do it. Yeah, for sure, mate. I was excited about it. I was like you know what? I'm going to go chat to my friend.

:: 01:25

Yeah for sure mate, absolutely, it works.

:: 01:27

But where I wanted to start was sort of, can we go back to the start? You know, go back to Matty growing up. Where abouts you from? And let's talk about your story growing up.

:: 01:37

Yeah, so I'm from a little town in Kent called Graves Ends. You know it's not the greatest of places. Really. It's home, obviously that's where I love it because it's where my family's from and where I grew up. But you know, it's working class sort of town, you know, a bit rough around the edges and things like that.

I was always, you know, I was always a little bit of a rebel, I suppose. You know, when I was younger I was a bit naughty in school. You know I hated, I hated school. I hated authority at the time, thought I knew it all, you know, didn't want to learn from anybody. If someone told me what to do, my attitude at that point was like, you know, would you know? You know, I thought I knew everything. Classic, classic, sort of classic, sort of teenage lad really. And yeah, you know, from there I left school very, very early. I didn't get any you know qualifications, any GCSEs or anything like that.

I left school straight away. I just wanted to earn money. We didn't have any money growing up, so the first thing I wanted to do was was earn money as quick as I could. So I was straight on the building site, right, because it's just jobs like that, going all the time in Grey's End and straight away got into a job like laboring for a bricklayer. Then I was, then I was roofing for a little while, then I was fitting windows. You know just loads of different jobs between sort of the age of, I'd say, 15 up to about, you know, 18.

And then I was getting in a bit of trouble, you know, with the, with just the crowd I was hanging around with earned a good crowd, you know they I mean they're nice guys, but they wasn't. You know they weren't going anywhere, right, loads of them had kids, really young already, and they weren't seeing the kids. They was all you know, smoking, weed, doing drugs, all this sort of stuff and it. I was just in with a little bit of a bad crowd and I got in a bit of trouble with the police when I was, when I was 18. And this is when Emily, my now wife, was pregnant with our first kid, ben, and we were, and we was living at our mum's still as well, and I got arrested, you know, spent the night in a cell and all this sort of stuff.

My old man picked me up and then I come back to my mum's house and my mum was like you know, you've got to sort yourself out. If you don't get a job working with your dad, I'm kicking you out and you're on your own sort of thing Like a bit of an automaton, you know. So then that led me to work with my dad. My dad at the time was working in a factory making plastic film. It was like food pack for food packaging. You know, those fucking annoying packs of bacon. You can't open.

:: 04:08

Yeah, yeah, that was me I used to make that shit right.

:: 04:10

So that was, that was what I used to make, and these massive four storey machines. It was like a really hot, uncomfortable place, like hard work. It was 12 hour shifts, days and nights, but I really sort of like learned to appreciate the work because, you know, I was 19 at this point now and I was probably making like maybe 30 grand a year, which for someone where I'm from, was a lot of money, and my age like no one my age was making that money. Oh, bearing in mind I was working every hour under the sun though, because obviously we'd now got a house and I've got a kid and you know I actually like really enjoyed it, but it was like it was there actually, you know, I'd always tell this story it was.

It was in that factory where, you know, if I could sort of like say a point where my life went in a completely different direction, it was working in that factory because there was a couple of reasons why it was, first of all, my old man, my dad's, working so closely with my dad, I learned a lot of stuff from him that he didn't like necessarily, you know, consciously teach me, but one thing was like work ethic. He just worked so hard. And the other thing was leadership, because although my dad at the time wasn't a manager you know he wasn't a, you know one of those people I looked around and I just noticed I was observing everybody else on the crew, all of their like the way they sort of look at my dad and all of them looked at him like a leader. They all gave him so much respect because, just because, simply because he worked harder than all of them and I sort of like picked up on that and that was a big sort of like lesson for me because I was like, okay, cool, so if you work really hard and you lead from the front, if you do the work, people naturally follow you. You'll be that person. He ended up being, like, you know, the foreman of that factory by the time I left. So that was one like really important lesson. But then the other big thing was that you know I didn't want to be in a place for the rest of my life if I didn't love it.

right, fuck knows, you know,: 2005

:: 06:45

Dave, yeah, yeah, that's it right, dave.

:: 06:47

He was probably like mid 50s to late 50s. And I remember saying to him I said, dave, how long have you been here? Because I genuinely didn't know. And he looked at me and he was like I've been here 35 years or 36 years or something like that. And I can remember that moment so clearly in my mind because it scared the shit out of me. I like it just suddenly come over like this massive fear come over me of like I could end up like that.

Now, there's nothing wrong with working in a place like that if you love it. My old man loved it, right, fair play to him. And he was great. He never bitch, never moaned about it. It was a great job. But why? And I just looked at him, I was like why are you still here If you hate this place that much and this place is so bad and it's so unfair and it's all this sort of stuff, why are you still here?

Because my attitude was never like that. I'd, at this point I'd had like six jobs. I'd work in a job I love it. Get to a point where I feel myself bitching or moaning about it, I'm out, I just move on, get another job. Life's too short and all this sort of stuff. And I can remember that moment because it was like a moment where I was like, yeah, I'm not gonna end up like that. If I ever get to a point where I'm bitching and moaning about a situation, I'm gonna do something to change you. How old are you at that point? So that was. I was like that was probably 20 when that happened.

:: 07:59

That's a good age to have that epiphany as well. Yeah, I've made for sure so many years and so on, and so forth.

:: 08:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah for sure, because loads of people you know, like a lot of people, they'll go through their whole lives about realising that.

:: 08:11

Coming back to the school point, and I find it really interesting because I wasn't great at school. I actually did quite well when it came to academics because I sort of had this hyper focus type thing on my ADHD where I was able to lock in and get it done at the last minute, but I was never the best behaviour, I was always in trouble and stuff and that kind of resonates with me.

You said you dropped out of school. What sort of like didn't you like about the authoritative school, and was it just the whole structure as a whole, or was it? You know it was more nature versus nature? Are you in a bad crowd and that pushed you that way?

:: 08:47

Yes, good question. It was probably authority. Definitely I hated being told what to do. I hated being made to do something I didn't want to do. So I hated the fact that I had to be there or I'd get in trouble. Like that to me is like a cage, you know, doing something that I don't want to do, but mainly it was money. It was like I don't want to be doing this stuff. I need money because, again, we didn't have any. I didn't have anything.

You know, I can still remember when I was younger all my friends you boys might be a bit too young to remember, but it was just like craze when I was probably like early teens, and there was like the Adidas Popper track suit bottoms, right Free stripes and they popped open and they had buttons all the way down. They were the coolest things ever and all of my friends fucking had these trousers. I didn't have them. I had like two stripes. You know it's horrible and I can remember my mom actually treated me one day. Actually, she brought me a pair and it was the best thing ever. I wore them every single day.

The problem was I made her this shitty nylon and by about three months into it there was just holes everywhere and I couldn't afford another pair. So a big driver was money. I just wanted to get out and actually just make some money. I knew, because of my grades I knew that I weren't getting into university. I couldn't. That was just wasn't an option because I didn't have the grades to do that and, like you know, I didn't want to go to college and, you know, learn a trade and all this sort of stuff. So I just decided to, you know, just just go out and just just get a job and earn some cash.

:: 10:16

When it came to authority, how did you find being in the workplace versus school? Because taking orders from someone who's above you when you came to the workplace, how did you find that compared to being a school?

:: 10:24

I didn't mind that because, again, it wasn't as bad. Yeah, it wasn't. I'm being paid. It wasn't as bad. Most of the time it's a bit of banter as opposed to, like you know, a teacher telling you off like you're an infant, so I didn't mind that too much. To be honest, you know don't get me wrong I had a couple of clashes with a couple of you know, like managers and supervisors and all that stuff through the years, but for the most part I didn't mind.

:: 10:46

It Do you think education as a whole is important, or do you reckon you know the path you took Because we had Christian Scales on? He was a Crystal Palace footballer?

:: 10:57

I saw it. I watched it.

:: 10:59

And he was basically saying like he's sacked off education. He was like I'm a footballer, he was making money.

:: 11:04

This is it.

:: 11:05

And then when he sat here. He's 27 now 26, 27, he was like I kind of wish I, you know, just carried on, even if it was just like doing BTEC or something, because he had no qualifications. What's your view on that? Are you like education as a whole now?

:: 11:21

I think schools important for all kids, but not for our kids, not for academic reasons, I don't think, obviously for some people, if they want to be a lawyer or a doctor, I don't think like a profession like that, obviously yeah, but I don't think I've got three kids and I think schools really, really important for social skills, communication skills, confidence, you know, being able to hold your own in different environments and different situations that come up at school. That's why it's important. I don't think that the stuff they teach in school is necessary. I think that you've got to learn that sort of stuff. But, like you know, having a graded system which can affect an employer hiring you, I don't think is right.

I know for a fact now I could pretty much get any job. I wanted to get job because I would get in as long as I got the interview. If I got the interview, I would 100% get hired because I believe in myself so much. I'm a great communicator, I can talk right, I can sell, and I think that that confidence is all that people want to know. Because I'm a boss, you know I've got nine employees. I know what people want. Really, all they want to know is that someone is going to be willing to learn and they're going to work hard. That's it, because at the end of the day, just because I've got a let's say I had a degree in maths, right, and then I go get a job and yeah, that's important, but most of the job you don't need that stuff that you learned in your degree. You don't need that stuff. You're going to be talking to people, you're going to be following a system that someone's going to teach you anyway, but the degree is like oh yeah, he's got a degree so he can learn. No, anyone could learn it, but the problem is that's like a big barrier for people hiring people and I think that's wrong. I think more employers should look at the person.

Because how I always say it is, I value common sense over intelligence. I would trade common sense for intelligence. Any day of the week, any day of the week. You give me common sense over a degree. You know, anytime, because I know again, working with smart people. You know you give them simple tasks where they have to make a simple decision, which is a common sense based decision, and they get it wrong because it's not analytical and they can't figure it out. There's not a formula for it. It's just a decision. You just got to make the decision and that takes common sense and that's the most valuable skill I think you know.

But I think we've got kids have got to go to school. Obviously I'm not saying that all my kids school, but my son's just finished his GCSEs, just finished them, he's got his results and he done great, like all bees. You know, he was freaking out a little bit a couple of months ago and I said look, mate, just so you know, I don't give a fuck what your grades are. Do not work yourself up, just do your best and it doesn't matter. I'm telling you now, no matter what your grades are, you're going to be fine because you're confident, you can talk to people. You know he's got common sense. That's all that matters. So and I definitely don't agree with parents, you know pressure in kids to do well in school and all this because I don't think, honestly, grades are. They're pointless. It's a shame that so many employers now look. I've never looked at a CV in my life ever.

:: 14:37

You just hire off some of these things.

:: 14:38

Never. I just get them in the interview. What my team does is they'll look at it in terms of you know, are they alright? And then get them in. I don't want to see it. I don't want to make any pre-judgments, because none of it matters. Just get them in front of me and let me see what they're made of.

:: 14:51

It's very interesting actually because I went into a school where I was one of maybe three or four people that didn't go to university. Yeah, I genuinely threw it in the entire year group and I was like it's not for me Because I didn't examine what I taught. I knew all the answers by just putting it down on paper. So when I got my results back, I thought I knew all the answers by just putting it down on paper. It's neurodiversity that isn't catered for school kids. You know, I'm telling them the same thing, probably you as well.

You knew all the answers, but you couldn't put it down on paper.

:: 15:12

So when I didn't go.

:: 15:13

People really couldn't understand why. And the parents were like why wouldn't Joe go to university? And I went to get into my own business and start my own thing up, and I've been doing it for 10 plus years since then. So same as you, most people that I know who examined really well couldn't cope in an interview situation, correct?

:: 15:27

Yeah, absolutely. But that was the why I was used to piss me off that what you just said. I used to get an answer right and then they would score it wrong because I didn't put the formula down of how it worked out. I don't know how it worked out and it was all in my head, and as well, because what schools need to? They're so behind schools, Like you know what is broken, because what they've got to do is they have to profile each kid first and they have to teach everyone in a different way.

Like I was dyslexic, right Bit of ADHD, obviously, and you know my, my, my attention was never there because I'm a dreamer. But that doesn't mean I'm not smart. That just means I drift off because I can't look. If you put a load of paper with lines of writing in front of me, I get overwhelmed, I get distracted and I start drifting off. I paint pictures in my head. If you draw me a picture of how that fucking works, I'll get it like that. I understand. Now Get on a whiteboard and show me and I understand. Oh, okay, yeah, got it. Someone does this with their hands and they're doing. I can understand that.

an old school. You know early: 1900

:: 17:11

How was this for you like school as a whole, like mentally Because I know, for like I think I speak for Joe as well it's like I literally felt like when we were running through books, nothing was going in. I was trying, but, just like you said, then, if someone was to teach me in a different way, it was easy, and that led to me like incredibly stressed out, gave me like really bad anxiety through school.

Yeah, I feel, like a lot of people in that position. I'd love to hear, like did that have the same effects on you, or were you just a bit like, actually you know what?

:: 17:38

Yeah, I can relate to it. I can, you know I can relate to it. But for me personally, it never bothered me to the point where I was ever stressed or worried. I just didn't get it Again. I was a shit. I just didn't care. My attitude was I don't give a fuck. I don't know how I got the grades I did. I got a couple of C's and I got B, which was remarkable because I didn't read a book. That's in the 10, most of the classes, you know. But I luckily never let it get me stressed out.

What you find is the people that stresses out the most are the ones that are really fucking trying to do it, the ones that are putting the work in, like my son. You know he was getting a little bit stressed out. He's I don't know where he's from. You know he's like he's always done so well in school. We've never had to make because, again, we're not that type of parents. We're pushing him to do homework. He's always done it. We've never asked him. He's like got predicted A's and B's for everything in school, so where the fuck has he?

done that Right, but again he's. He did get to a point where he was letting it stress him out a little bit much. You know, to the point where, you know, had a conversation with me, he's just like, yeah, that's getting to me. Now, what if I don't get a grade? It doesn't matter, mate, it doesn't matter.

:: 18:42

Yeah, um, another thing. I put out a little poll on my Instagram where I have a few followers who, you know, ask certain questions, and when I talked about your story, um, a couple of weeks back, one of the questions was do you think you can truly be hungry unless you've experienced adversity in life? And that like sort of stuck me and I was like that's a perfect question to ask Matty when he's on. What's your view on that?

:: 19:07

Um, yeah, I think you can, absolutely. I honestly do, you know. I know I know people that have come from much more comfortable backgrounds than I did with money and stuff. They just have different drivers. You know that their, their, their main driver psychologically will be to prove to outwork, to outperform dad, for example, right, or whatever. But they can definitely 100% still be just as hungry as we can where we just. We just come from a a bit more of a, um, you know, almost like a scarcity background. It's like we're doing it because we want what we've never had. Mm, you know what they're probably trying to do and where they find they're hungry and drive from is trying to outwork what whoever has already had. You know. But, yeah, I definitely think you can If your motivator originally was money.

:: 19:52

When you first started making money, like actual money. Well, what did it? Continue to be money after you started making it, or was it then?

:: 19:58

No, yeah, that's a really good question actually. No, it didn't. It definitely changed. It may be probably, um, you know, sort of like five years ago, maybe it really switched for me because, you know, I was, I was only really good money, business was doing well, I was. I got to a point where, you know, if I, if I, if tomorrow I wanted to go to Vegas, you know, business class or whatever, I could just do it at the drop of a hat. If one of my mates said, yeah, do you want to go to Fingering next week, I'll be like, yes, sweet, got to a point where I could do it. I, you know, I'm not one of these people that needs like a massive house, you know, five Ferraris on the thing. I've never been like that, anyway, just for a year. But yes, weird, it just changed to like my.

My main focus always now the how I gauge it isn't necessarily how much money I'm making, it's always how happy I am. That's my gauge, you know. My gauge is, you know, do I want to get up and go to work? Do I? Am I happy doing what I'm doing right now? Do I want to be here? All of those types of little gauges. You know things like that. Am I happy with my body right now, where my health is? Am I happy with my social life, am I happy with my relationship? And I just sort of like, look at those factors really now, you know, and try not to focus necessarily on the materialistic stuff and getting the money in Although that's very, very important, because it's one of the most important things, without a doubt, because without that all of that stuff is way harder, you know but it just means that I don't, I don't just purely focus on doing it. Like you know, in my early 20s, mid 20s, late 20s, that was just that, was it? That's all I was thinking about.

:: 21:36

You just spoke then about your physical fitness. I know that's as big, for you had your online coach speak at EMC.

:: 21:43

Kirk Miller yeah.

:: 21:43

Yeah, Kirk Miller, Obviously that's what Joe's in. Joe's a PT, Joe, he's huge on sort of fitness and you know we both are in a way of in happy body like happy mind, and I'm a big believer in that. And especially like for me, physical activity, if I can exercise and have a good fitness regime, and we both play rugby.

:: 22:03

So do I.

:: 22:03

Oh really, you're playing at the moment, or I've made.

:: 22:06

I've literally found out yesterday I've got to have an ankle operation on the 5th of November. It's quite a bad one.

:: 22:12

What do you do?

:: 22:12

I had an ankle operation, so I had an MRI last week and it's I've got a bone fragment stuck in my ankle and it's written it's been like six months now Because I've, with private healthcare, before they send you to like, especially put you through like physio. I know my body and I'll send these physios. Look, there's something bad wrong with it. This elastic band you're fucking giving me ain't gonna do shit. I need to go and see a professional about my ankle. Finally went to saw one and he was like, yeah, it's fucked, and then we need to get you in for an MRI. And then, yeah, there's a bone fragment in it, so they've got to remove that. I'm gonna have to wear a boot for like six weeks, so I'm out. I can't play till January now. So I'm gutted.

:: 22:48

Where is it you're playing at the moment?

:: 22:50

Graze end, Graze end, yeah, Graze end, oh for old Graze Indians. But in Graze end, yeah, I enjoy it still. Yeah, yeah for sure. I stopped playing first team last year. I've just gone down to the seconds, like, cause my body's just like gets in bits playing at one's level, they always call me up. I'm just like mate, at first when I was trying to play twos, I would just get kept getting called up to the ones. And then I was just like last year I made a decision. I was like, no, I'm not, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna be rude and tell you no, every time I'm not playing ones anymore, Cause my body just like the way I play. I'm not a technically good player, I just run straight through people and because our level's, like you know, we're in this camp once it's like the highest level in Kent, it's like they're fit, they're big, they're strong. When they hit me, although it's fine on the day, the next day, I'm like I'm like, I'm, like, I'm like I'm like I'm going to twos, twos level.

They just move out of my way. It's brilliant. And when they do hit me, they're soft as shit. So it's like I wake up the next day, I'm fine. So I'm like I love playing rugby, but I'm only doing it at twos level. Now you know.

:: 23:47

What other stuff do you do? What other stuff do you do in terms of, like gym-wise? I know you use Kirk and his program. What type of stuff does that involve?

:: 23:56

Yeah, I mean like recently, yeah, it's been very limited because of my ankle. So every morning, Monday to Friday anyway, I do a 5K jog, you know very slow, 35, 40 minutes, so a nice slow pace, and then I'll hit the gym, do some weights, full body stuff, try to hit every sort of muscle group, and then in the sauna, and in the sauna for 20 minutes, cold shower for 10 seconds and then I'm into the office.

:: 24:26

Have you done a lot of like cold water things? I'm trying to do it and we spoke about this before. I literally sit in like an ice bath.

:: 24:33

Yeah.

:: 24:33

Can't bring myself. I'm getting better with it.

:: 24:35

Yeah, it's great All the Wim Hof stuff. I've been on a few of it so I've learned how to do it. Now there's techniques, breathing techniques and stuff. You can master it, yeah. So I went on a Wim Hof retreat and they teach you like the breathing technique and stuff you do before you get in there. So when I get in now I can get in. I'm not like you know.

:: 24:53

I'm not like that.

:: 24:53

I can get in just and I'm just in there, calm and collected.

:: 24:56

It does wonders for, like my men, especially when I'm in like a stressful situation, if I work all day and I just I'm just stressed out. Just doing that it makes me feel great afterwards. So any advice afterwards would be very helpful. The next area we wanted to touch on was this is something you spoke about briefly at EMC, but I also read about you and you're very big on like personal development and you're big on people like Tony Robbins and the advice that these guys provide.

What can you tell the viewers about, like, what type of advice these guys have given to you? Cause now I guess the torch has been passed and I look at people like yourself and the people at EMC who provide this value.

:: 25:37

Yeah, man, I mean, just consume as much of it as you possibly can. You know I listen to every morning when I'm on that jog. So that's 40 minutes and then I'm in the gym for probably another 45. That whole time I'm listening to motivational videos on YouTube. I go onto YouTube search for motivational videos, whack the first one on, just let it play and it just. You know there's nothing bad about that, because it's just filling your mind with really good, positive shit. You know, just motivation stuff.

But then also, if you want to get like deeper into it, you know, go down Tony Robbins' route and really sort of start learning. If I could go back and go to university, for example, and I was allowed to study one subject, it would be psychology. That would be my subject, because human psychology, because that's actually, you know, although you know I've been marketing I'm known for being a marketer, if you like, and helping companies you know run ads and all that sort of stuff. The thing that I've studied the most out of everything, more than sales, which I studied as shitload, more than marketing, is psychology and knowing how your own brain works. So, like Robbins, will go deep into some of that stuff so you can really start understanding it, because most people they don't understand the real reasons why they're not doing the things that they should do, why they are doing the things that they shouldn't do. They don't understand that because they're not self-aware and they're not self-aware because they don't understand how the brain works. So once you understand, for example, like when you know, when you go into, like subconscious, and you, like Robbins talks about that a lot you know, and like you know Napoleon Hill, for example, think and grow rich. If you go in and start understanding the power that the subconscious mind, your subconscious minds, has over you, it will blow you away.

How I try to explain it. I've been really trying to over the last sort of year. I've been trying to get this out of my head. So sorry if it comes across a little bit disjointed, but there's potentially a book in this. I'm trying to get it out.

But the way I look at it is that there's two. Imagine two people in your head right, you've got a really big, like Arnold Schwarzenegger looking guy and then you've got like a really small, tiny, very quiet, like Danny DeVito looking guy. Right, he's really small, insignificant. That's what it's like. It's kind of like conscious mind, subconscious, mind, right, these two things. And what happens for most people is when they say, yeah, I'm gonna go to the gym tomorrow. And then tomorrow comes rounds and they get up and they say, and in their head the Arnold Schwarzenegger looking guy, he says something like, oh yes, all right, it's a little bit cold outside to just wait till tomorrow. You know he says that. And then Danny DeVito looking guy, he's down there saying no, he's fucking. You're just saying that because you don't wanna get up and go to the gym. You lazy fucker, get up and go to the gym. You can't hear him Cause he's too small, he's too quiet. This other guy's too big.

As you become more aware of your own subconscious and like the other, both of those voices inside your head, the real reason is Danny DeVito. He's telling you the truth. The other guy's lying to you. Danny DeVito is trying to tell you the truth. It's like it's just an excuse. You're just doing that because you're lazy, but you can't hear him.

Once you can hone into it a little bit and you listen to him, once he gets a little bit stronger, and then the other guy gets a little bit smaller, and then the more and more you listen to that guy and do the things that he's telling you to do, he gets stronger and stronger and stronger and stronger until they reverse, like my brain at the moment. Is that my truth, my actual subconscious mind? He's massive, he's huge, he's loud, he's big, massive, massive, muscly guy. And my other guy who's still there. You can never get rid of him, ever. You can't kill him. He's always there. This is the guy with all the bad thoughts. This is the guy that'll tell you not to do stuff. This is the guy who'll, like, tell you to kill yourself. This is the guy that will do all of this other stuff. He's still there and you can never get rid of him. But now this guy's so much stronger so when he pipes up, he just punches him in the head or whatever, right, it's like an internal battle all of the time.

Problem is everybody, most people. They're walking around. It's the other way around, so they can't hear this guy and they refuse to listen to him, because this guy's saying, yeah, he's a liar, he's a liar. No, no, of course you can lie in bed, Just, you're cold, you can go tomorrow. It's a liar, right, and then so, and that's self-awareness, what I'm trying to explain. That's self-awareness. It's like a visual way again, I'm visual, visual way to explain self-awareness. It's being able to hear this guy. That's self-awareness. Knowing the real reason why you're not doing the things that you should while you are doing the things that you shouldn't. It's being able to hone in. So listening to all this stuff, listening to Robins and all that sort of stuff over the years has made me very, very self-aware. That's the one gift it's given me self-awareness.

I cannot bullshit myself. Now. If I wanna try something new and I don't, I can lie about it for a little while, but then as soon as I hear this voice, cause again, I'm honed in on this. Now, as soon as I hear the guy that tells the truth say, no, you're just doing it cause you're scared, you're gonna fail, you're scared of failure, then I go I ain't fucking scared of failure, fuck that, I'm gonna do it Because I can't. The truth now pisses me off, whereas this guy's saying oh, yeah, no, no, yeah, just wait till everything's perfect. You know, you know, do this, do that, all this sort of stuff. The real reason is cause I'm scared of failing. And as soon as I admit that, I then know that that's the real reason I'm not doing it and I don't accept that. Yeah, where other people they won't accept that, they're scared of failing, they'll make up all this other shit that this guy's telling them and they'll listen to that.

:: 31:06

You know how do you sort of combat that Cause? I feel like, yeah, now you've explained, it actually makes a lot of sense like how my head works, and I feel like a lot of the time is when I get that voice is in the gym, when you're under a heavy weight and you've got like three more reps and you're just like no one's watching. I can just do one more, and recently I've been like avidly making sure I do every single rep.

:: 31:29

Even if.

:: 31:30

I'm in there longer than everyone else, more to just prove to myself that I'm not like mentally weak.

And that's so funny. You said that it's literally been the last six months I've been. You know it's not really a journey, but like changed that mindset. If someone's starting out there, who's in that space that I was in about six months ago and you were at one point what would you say is like the best place to start? Would you go for a mindset coach or would you literally just get on YouTube and just start learning about yourself?

:: 31:55

Yeah, just just make, just start. Yeah, like, let's just again motivational videos. Just that just on YouTube will teach your life. You can just fill your brain with some of that stuff every day. That's great. But yeah, more detailed stuff, like you know, old school stuff Zig Ziglar, tony Robbins, brian Tracy I've listened to everything any of those guys have ever sold. I've got it all. You know that stuff really helps because it's really they'll explain it. But the biggest bit of advice I can give is everyone can hear it. Everyone can hear that voice, but they just they lie to themselves. You know that's it and it's just getting real fucking honest with yourself.

Remember when I was 29, I was really good at marketing. I was doing all this stuff, but I was behind the scenes. I was running a company for another guy seminar events company. We used to teach public speaker training. I knew that I wanted to start getting out there. I wanted to start doing videos, because I was seeing all these other people doing videos online and Instagram and Facebook and doing all this stuff, and I was like, I know my craft better than any of these guys. I can talk better and this is what I'm telling myself I can do it so much better than them and all this sort of stuff, I'm gonna do it. And then it's like, yeah, but I wait till I get a really good camera first, and then I'll oh, yeah, no, but now I've got the camera, I'll get the mic and the lighting's gonna be good and all this sort of shit. Oh yeah, I can't do it now because I've got all this stuff to do and it's lies and lies and lies, excuses, excuses.

I then turned 30. 30 was a big sort of turning point in my life as well. This really sort of shifted me again here, because when I turned 30, it was the first time ever that I could remember my dad turning that age. So, for example, I couldn't remember my dad turning 29. I couldn't remember his 29th birthday, couldn't remember his 28th, 24th, 23rd, although I was there, couldn't remember it, but I vividly remembered his 30th birthday because I was 10. I remembered it. I remembered the banner, the balloons or where it was. Now I'm 30. And I was like, fuck, I'm the same age as my dad. That's like what went through my head and it scared me, because that was the first time I started to realize how short life is, like really All of the bullshit. Mortality was just out the window. Immortality was out the window. It was just like mortality's here. I was like fuck, I'm getting old.

And five years have gone by now where I've been saying I'm gonna do that, start putting stuff out there, start building a bit of a profile, start speaking on stages, start doing this sort of stuff. Five years I've been talking about doing it and that's gone now. And I was like why is that? What's the fucking real reason? So I had to get really deep and do some really sort of like self-work and figure out what it was. And it was.

And again, this is again all comes from self-awareness. I really had to listen to what the reason was, and it was the fact that I was scared about what other people would think. And it was like and when I but again, when I realized it and admitted it to myself I wouldn't have it I was like that's the reason, fuck that. But that was a controlling factor of why I hadn't done it for five years it got 100%. So then I got real deep and I was like, okay, but so who is it that I'm scared will think something, because all my family and everyone they'll be supportive. So who is it? You know, who is it? Just strangers. I don't know those people. I don't know if they're gonna see them. Like, why do I care about those people? And then actually, when I come, it was really weird. I actually figured it out Again.

I went really internal and figured it out. It was people I used to go to school with. It was my old crowd. It was the bad crew. It was those guys I pictured. I figured out I was picturing them, seeing it on Facebook. It's like you've seen Matt look at his prick. You know what's he doing, you know that sort of thing. That's what I was. But it was very, very subconscious, so I weren't admitting that. That was the reason.

But once I done some self-work, I was like I've got to figure out why I'm not doing this. What's the barrier, what's the thing that's holding me back? I figured out it was that. I went real deep and I was like that's ridiculous, because I don't even see those people anymore. You know, funny thing is they a lot. A few of the people messaged me and they're just like mate, love your videos, it's doing all when I first started doing it.

But the point was because I figured it out and then got real honest with myself and admitted that that was the reason. My brain then wouldn't let me not do it, because I was like, just like when I admit that actually it's because I'm scared of failing, and I know, because I preach it all the time, that failing is actually nothing to be scared of at all. So if that's ever the reason I'm like, well, no fuck, that I'm doing it, then If that's the real reason and it's not all this other shit that my brain has been telling me, then I'm gonna do it because that's fine. If it's because I'm scared of what people think, that I don't even see anymore, if that's the real reason, then I'm gonna do it Because that's nothing to be scared of. And then from 30 onwards I just literally and it was mate, it was like a weight was lifted I dropped every bit of baggage I ever had about what other people think about me.

I don't care anymore. And I know because I used to be the guy in my 20s that would say I know, everyone says it. Oh yeah, I don't care what people think. Everybody does, everybody does. Now there's some people you've gotta care what people think. Like, don't get me wrong, I care what my family think of me. I care what my kids think of me, what my wife thinks of me, that's important.

If they start saying I'm being a dick or like mate, you're being a bit of a prick lately, or whatever that's saying I need to pay attention to. But if some troll with a water bottle as a profile picture on fucking Facebook comments on one of my ads calling me a wanker and a liar and a scammer, I don't care, because I know myself so well. I know I'm not any of that stuff. I know that I'm a good person. I know that I've got stuff to share and it allows me to block all that stuff out Because, again, everything like that that the people would think it's all lies anyway. They don't know me and now I've come to terms with the fact that it's okay if people that don't really know me think I'm something I'm not. It doesn't bother me, because I know for a fact 100% if they were in a room with me they would fall in fucking love with me. I know it right.

And then you start looking at it from their point of view as well, and because most of the shit when people are giving you hate and slagging you off and doing all this stuff and that negativity. You then realize that actually it's because they've got some shit going on, like they've got some. Think about the person, right that's on Facebook. I say that because I run a lot of ads, right, so I get a lot of hate on my ads and stuff. On Facebook they watch a video like for three minutes I've got a video of me for three minutes and then they comment like really, my off-bancoder, I've been called a prick, a scammer, all of this stuff in the comments. Think about what that person's headspace is like to do that. I would never do that. If I saw an ad, I thought it was dodgy or scam. I wouldn't even waste my time commenting on it. I haven't got the time to comment and get angry about it.

Now they've seen an ad of me. Now they're day, they're all angry and worked up and they're outside of the picture. I'm like walking around the kitchen fucking Matt Wilson guy. I'm just like mate, what are you doing? You've got a life to live. I'm fucking writing comments on me and working yourself up, getting yourself angry about me. Go and help yourself. Go and do something good for yourself. So then you get into a bit of pity for them because it's a weird thing online hate and trolls and stuff A lot of people have got a lot of shit going on in their head and when you realise that it's easy to get over, you're like now I just look at them, sometimes even reply you're all right, you're having a bad day, like do you want to talk? Because some of them have just got, they get really angry. So I'm like it's a fucking ad, like with EMC, for example.

The event, it's an event, right, it's a live event that people pay for a ticket and then they come and they learn some great stuff and there's people on the ads and it's like biggest scam in history. And I was like what the fuck? It's an event man. You come in, you pay, like you go to see a gig. These guys are paying to come and see and learn about business. Where's the scam? I don't understand that. I'm scamming them. They're going to come to a live event and get what they've paid for. Has it a scam? And they're just like yeah, just because they're just angry. They don't like to see anyone doing well because they're not doing well. That's what it all boils down to how much insecurity is there.

A massive insecurity. That's why no joke, and this is a fact 80% of people that comment shit. Their face isn't their profile picture. I've seen water bottles, I've seen shoes. I've seen cars a big one, cats right, that's their profile picture. They're calling me a scammer. They ain't even got a fucking picture on their profile. It's like what world do we live in in here, you know, but anyway that was a bit of a rant.

:: 40:38

I saw a video the other day that was basically just saying you never see if you were to go play basketball. You've never seen NBA player hate you or new player basketball. Yeah, and if you are a top businessman, you're never going to hate on someone who's looking to start a business 100%. And that's just because these guys and girls are hating because they're not doing it. They're not doing it, correct.

:: 40:57

Yeah, because they're telling themselves that the reason they're not doing it is because everyone that's doing it are scammers and they've anchored all of this negativity to doing something good. You know, the classic example is you know you see a really nice car in a garage, like pull up Ferrari, for example. Immediately you think that person's a drug dealer or their dad's rich. All you're doing is telling your subconscious that to get a Ferrari, you've got to be a drug dealer or your dad's got to be rich. That's what you're doing. You're training your subconscious to believe that that's the case. So you're never going to go out and get it because, again, the subconscious is so powerful Over years and years and years.

If you're telling yourself that you can now no longer get a Ferrari because your brain now thinks that to get Ferrari is bad, you have to be bad to have that, which means you'll never get it. You know, rather than open up and say how did he get that, I wonder, you know, going up and speaking to him and asking him how he got it. What'd you do? How'd you do it? You know all that sort of stuff. It's just totally different mentality. How long would you say?

:: 41:57

it took you from start to finish to get to the starting point where you were then and to the point where you think, actually I don't care anymore and I'm content with where I'm at.

:: 42:05

In terms of what people think and stuff.

:: 42:06

Well, in terms of like years, months, whatever, from a starting point. Where you go I need to make a change here and where you just you knew you'd completed it. Where you go, I don't care anymore. I am where I am, I'm happy and I'm content.

:: 42:18

Oh, mate, I've never, I've not, I'm not there yet. Oh, no, no, no, yeah, yeah, don't misunderstand me. Well, you know, entrepreneurship is a disease, unfortunately, and it's an uncurable disease. Our brains are wired differently. We can't stop. You know, if I've reached I've reached countless goals over the years I've found at loads but countless goals, and all that happens is immediately look for the next thing, and the next thing and the next thing.

I've actually got to this, this staircase here on my tattoo this is actually to represent that Trying to think is like. That's how I look at it. It's just a never ending fucking staircase, like there is no top, Even the thing guys that you think are at the top, that, that, that, that ain't their top, their top's fucking way above that. You look at millionaires. They're trying to be tens, millionaires, hundred millionaires, billionaires, billionaires, trying to be trillionaires. Doesn't stop. We're wired differently. You know, entrepreneurs, we can never settle. Nothing is ever good enough, because that's the way we're wired and sometimes it's exhausting. You know, I look I've said this a few times actually I look at people that are very, very happy in life and content, doing just a normal job, and I envy him sometimes, like my brother's.

A great example. He's a teacher. He's just the happiest person I've ever met. He's completely content, no ambition like it's a teacher. Right, it's not really much ambition you can have, maybe, to be a head teacher, but it's not really much ambition you can have. He's happy doing it, which means he can go to work, he can come home and he can put his feet up and switch off. I can't do that. I'm at work or I'm at home. Wherever I am, I'm constantly ticking, ticking, ticking, ticking, ticking. I'm always thinking about what I can do next, how I can do more, how I can reach more people, how I can do all this stuff and it's exhausting, but that's what we have to put up with to have the life that we have to get the things that we have to see, the places that we have to meet, the people that I have. That's what we've got to sacrifice. Is that contentness, and it's never going to come. So are you able to switch off at any point?

Not really, no, so not holidays, no Holidays sometimes I can I mean, you know, give me like, maybe it'll take me a couple of days though. So holidays it's a little bit easier for me because I've got kids and they keep me very busy, so again, but still it'll take me three, four, five days to switch off, and even then, you know, I've got employees, business, whatever. Even then there's messages coming in. I'm never fully switched off, you know, because, as well, I'm a massive learner, so I'm always any sort of spare time I write, what can I read, what can I learn, what can I sort of digest to get better, Always trying to get better.

And yeah, I spoke about it a few times. Actually it's a really interesting sort of you know, concept, that sort of employee because it's weird like employees a lot of the time they look at people that have got like businesses and they're, you know, doing all that, they've got money and they're like, oh, yeah, that'd be great to be like that. But you know, mate, the grass ain't always greener. There's shit that comes with being like this yeah, okay, we get the, you know, we get the cars and we get the money and we get their respect and all that sort of stuff, but we do not switch off.

:: 45:30

It's exhausting sometimes what I was going to say, when you brought the speakers to EMC predominantly all you know, brilliant entrepreneurs who made a load of money. When you're talking with these people, sort of network with them, are they in a similar mindset to you, of sort of just like can't switch off. Next goal Is that like a similar trait between them all?

:: 45:50

Yeah, it's wide into every entrepreneur mate. It's the entrepreneurs thing Going back. But I've always had it. You guys have got it. I've always had it since we're at school. That's what. That's what fucking ADHD is. That's it. We can't.

I'm doing something and then either something shinier comes up, and then I'll switch and have another idea, or constantly thinking, or I get something done and straight away I'm on to the next thing, what it was really important to do. I think and I only again, I only started doing this a couple of years ago because, again, I'm self-aware and that conversation we just had about, you know, not being able to switch off and stuff like that. It's really, really important sometimes Every now and then, you know, I do it in the sauna a lot, right, I just sit there and just gratitude, just think about everything you are thankful for, because the problem is with it. You're always looking forward, so you're always on a starting line. That's how it feels. You're always on a starting line what you should do.

If I look back from when I was 18, it's like the difference is massive. It's enormous, you know. And because I'm always looking forward at that next thing, I'm always in a mindset of I haven't even got there yet. I'm not even doing that yet. So every now and then it's good to look back and just be like fucking it. But look how far you've already come, and that makes you feel a lot better and a lot more positive. And I think that's very, very important because you can get you know, I hate the word depressed, not depressed but you can sort of get a little bit you know down. If you're constantly focusing on what you haven't got yet, because that's what that is the thing in front of you is strip everything away. It's something you haven't got. And if you're constantly focusing on something you haven't got, you're never going to appreciate what you have got.

:: 47:29

It's funny because I spoke to my dad the other day and he was like you know, we're quite a tough love family, like we don't go around being like you're amazing, you're amazing. And he was just like listen, everyone at the moment saying you're doing really well and stuff like that, and it put me in an awful headspace and I just felt like it's such a bad headspace to be in when I myself feel like I'm so far behind but everyone's telling you you're doing so well. That's quite a scary headspace to be in and it's kind of just expanding on the point which you said is I don't feel satisfied in what I'm doing. I have to keep going.

Even though everyone's been like mate you're doing amazing, like this podcast is great and stuff I'm doing behind the scenes is looking great, and that's a pretty horrible place to be in, and, I'm sure, one that you've been in as well.

:: 48:14

Yeah, I think it's good to be like that.

Again, that's just the way you're wired, mate. You know the same as me, you're never going to get that. But, like I said, that's why it's important to look back. You know, it's definitely good to be like that. I mean, you've always got to be honest with yourself. Don't bullshit yourself about how well you are doing. You know, I've been like I'm like it with rugby. Rugby's a great example as well. I never think I play well, ever.

I get off the pitch and everyone's like yeah, mate, you did all this on something. After All I think about is the shit that I did wrong, that I can do better next time. I don't focus on it and I'm like that of anything I do with the event, all I'm doing at that event. You know it's amazing. All this, all I'm looking at is everything that's shit about it. I'm like this has got to change. There's nothing wrong with that, because that's how we get better. That's like. That's, that's honesty, that's, you know, that's being self aware and honest of the reality. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's our champions image, you know, taking on that feedback, trying to get better, because the other side of the coin is delusion, whereas I am great and all this sort of stuff. This is what I used to do when I was again late teens. I didn't want to learn anything because I thought I knew it all. You know, no one could tell me anything because, again, I just thought I knew it all. And someone that thinks they know it all can never, ever get better.

If someone does something wrong and they don't take responsibility for it and say, yeah, I fucked up there and this is what I can do better next time, that person's never getting any better. That's one of the worst character traits you can have in an employee, for example. I don't care if someone fucks up at all, it's good to make mistakes, say you learn. But you come to me and say oh, yeah, but it's this person's fault. No, no, it's your responsibility. It doesn't matter who's fault is.

As a manager, you know I used to get it's the most painful thing to do when I was running the company before. As a manager. It was the most painful thing to do. Something goes wrong that someone underneath me did. It's completely their fault. I can't then go to my boss at the time and tell him that oh yeah, no, it's his fault down there. He fucked up. That's bad leadership, that's on me, that he's my responsibility. So whatever he does wrong is my responsibility. So I have to tell him that it's my fault.

What bad leaders do and this is where you get people like hating on management and hating on managers and all this is their snitches. So if that person there fucks up, they'll go to the boss and say, yeah, man, get rid of him, he's rubbish. You know, bad leader, that whole team. Now I'm not gonna trust this person ever Because all they think is yeah, if something goes wrong, you're not gonna have my back. How people follow you. People follow you into battle, follow you at work, whatever on a team, captain of rugby team or whatever is because they know when it comes down to it, you're gonna have their back. That's one of the most important characteristics of a leader and that's how you show it by taking responsibility for shit. Now, don't get me wrong. I'm gonna give that guy a bollocking and he's gonna learn to not do that again, but I cannot tell that person that it's his fault, yeah.

:: 51:06

Yeah, for sure I'm wary of time.

:: 51:09

Yeah, no worries, man, but I'd love to end on these two questions. Yeah, go for it.

:: 51:13

What's the plan for you over the next five to 10 years? I know you're constantly step after step growing, but where do you see yourself in five to 10 years time personally, and in sort of business life as well?

:: 51:25

Yeah, I mean well, personally, your best shape of my life. You know, one of my big goals, as soon as I get this angle of operation out, I wanna get into a ridiculous shape and be like 38, 39, and just be like six packed up. You know. So that personally there just being able to run and just be fit and healthy. But main goal always right Be a good dad and all that sort of stuff.

Business-wise, obviously, emc that's a bit of a passion project. You know, five years I probably would have sold it hopefully by then. You know, sold it. You know multi, eight figure exit is what we're gonna go for for that event. Yeah for sure. Agency ticking over nicely, my team's still there, me probably out of the business and doing more stuff like working with other businesses. What I love is like going into another business, helping them, strategize with them and just helping grow other companies as well. You know I'd love so once my business is at the stage where I can completely step out. Emc's done the same. You know what I'd love to do If I had millions in the bank. That's what I'd do. I'd be approaching companies, doing deals with them. Look, get me on the board, bring me in as a shareholder and then working with them from like a strategic point of view, because that's what I love doing, that sort of stuff.

:: 52:42

Mate, I love that. That's awesome. The last question I'm gonna end it on is if you could give anyone advice who is currently on a similar path to you and doubting themselves at 17, 18, maybe even at 20, working in a factory. What would you say to them? What advice would you give?

:: 52:58

them. Don't compare, because the only reason people are like that at that age is because they're comparing themselves to someone more successful, more rich, older. Don't compare to anybody, you know. Just focus on yourself. Don't care what anyone thinks at that point. And then be patient as well when you're 20, you think that you've got to have everything figured out by 20. I still haven't got anything figured out. I'm 37, you know, and if I could go back until 18 year old Matt, 19 year old Matt, 20 year old Matt, just be more patient, like mate. You've got so much time. Learn. Take this time, especially in your 20s, where you've got loads of energy to learn everything you can. But you know, the most important thing is don't let things that aren't actually important get to you, and normally that is what you haven't got or what somebody else has.

:: 53:51

Mate. What a pleasure.

:: 53:53

Thank you so much. No worries, man, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you