#12 - Troy Cooke - How To Heal After Loss: Troy Cooke On Men's Mental Health Lessons

:: 00:00

Mr Troy Cook. Thanks for coming on, my friend.

:: 00:03

Did you learn about the little clap at the start? That's my new thing from the last episode.

:: 00:06

How you doing, man you good.

:: 00:08

Yeah, I'm good, yeah, yeah.

:: 00:09

What's been going on? What's been going on in your life recently.

:: 00:11

That's a crazy, crazy period in my life at the moment. Yeah, moving in between two countries, businesses, dogs, you know, relationships it's pretty crazy.

:: 00:23

You're back fully for Christmas now.

:: 00:24

Yeah.

:: 00:25

Whereabouts in Spain, are you based normally? Normally based in Ibiza. Ibiza, living the best life. Yeah, what is it you do over there? You have a full-time business out there, don't you?

:: 00:36

Yeah, in 2022, we opened a cafe in Santalaria in Ibiza and I was already living there before and yeah, I mean since then just being based out there building the cafe up. I'm sure we'll get into the history of how we got there, but yeah, we're a coffee house, coffee house with a kick. We serve juices, cafe, obviously.

:: 01:04

I love that, and you know, joe, from home, I'm guessing from down in Sarawak.

:: 01:08

Joe's, yeah, Joe's, my default. You know, oldest friend, you know.

:: 01:13

How long have you known him now?

:: 01:15

Joe, I've, I say, most of our lives. So I say, I'm slightly older than Troy, so I probably Just a year. Yeah, a couple of years old.

:: 01:24

We would have liked each other for a minute or two for the last 20 or 25 or 20 years. Yeah, our parents went to uni university together.

:: 01:30

In terms of mental health as a whole. Obviously, the podcast space around wellbeing, mental health mainly that was Joe was my first guest, so it's kind of come full circle now we're on episode 11 now. Episode 11, and then chat shows, episode six that's gone quick, we're episode one.

:: 01:46

Hey, we're flying through.

:: 01:47

Can you just tell everyone a bit about your story and the sort of relation you have to mental health and why you're on today?

:: 01:53

Yeah, it's a good question, it's. I would say I didn't necessarily have a completely conventional upbringing. My childhood was great. Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. You know. I had an amazing place to live, food on my table, so, but in terms of like a nuclear conventional family, I don't think that's what I had at all. So I think I first sort of experienced, you know, the feeling of being slightly different from a very, very young age. You know, with anxiety, going to school and not having the conventions you know of a mother and a father and the perfect family home.

And, yeah, obviously, been speaking with Joe, you know, for quite some time about expressing myself and talking about my side of things. And yeah, he's doing what he's doing now. It's just amazing. And when he said, you know, come and share your thoughts, and obviously I'm going to bite his hand off of that because it's just amazing to be able to sit here and talk openly about my experience. And you know Joe knows, you know full world about the challenges that I've gone through. And yeah, that's where we are now.

:: 03:10

Do you find it nice that you in a way obviously what people have gone through is really tough but do you find a bit of you know comfort in that knowing you've both gone through it and you've both been best friends growing up in that allows you to be stronger in a way.

:: 03:23

Well, I can't speak on behalf of Troy, but I just want to say like how proud I am of him. I mean it's like he's like a brother to me and like a best friend growing up. I think Troy and I first spoke about our mental health journeys when I first sort of came out, as it were, about sort of five plus years ago, and Troy, I think, was just trying to find his feet. In that sense, I think Troy's battled for you know, a lot of his life. But I think the last couple of years I mean I can't speak for him, but I think the last couple of years really come to a head and he's really managed to sort of hone in on what he needs to do to sort of make himself better and take ownership of his mental health. And I'm so I can't be prouder of him to come on here and share his stories, which we'll get onto in a minute, but just my personal point of view. I just want to thank you for coming on, man.

:: 04:02

I really, really brodered to come on here and share your story so yeah, have you found it hard sort of talking about it publicly as a whole and like doing things there, because this is what we talk about quite a lot is our first episode.

If you actually like watch it back. We're both like really struggling in a way to kind of talk about it because it's the first time publicly. Like throughout the back of my mind, the whole time I was just thinking are people just going to judge me for this? Like what's going on. But now we're at this point where it's actually benefited us massively being able to talk openly, meet people like yourself, meet people like Annaly last week, alex Bowen like having all these people on it's been great. Have you found it hard sort of being more open about your mental health, whether that's in terms of talking about your story, which we're going to get onto very soon with family, with friends, or is it kind of, you know, being quite nice being able to be open to people like Joe and be like this is what I'm going through and knowing that you have someone there to you know, listen and really appreciate you for doing that.

:: 04:58

Yeah, I mean, talking with Joe is one thing, because he's just been so understanding and open since the beginning, since day dot. You know I could. He's the sort of guy that I've always picked up the phone to, I've always called him sorry and he's always answered or always got back to me. So it's really really easy, you know, to talk to him. It's very rare to have a best friend, you know, who can listen like that. Yeah, but just now, in this environment, even like the thought of trying to like express myself now, like my mind is sort of racing a little bit because suddenly I feel really really anxious to be able to like talk about it. If it was me and Joe in a room right now, I have no issue at all, but it's sort of, you know, going out there, putting this online and stuff, like it's a very, very difficult, difficult thing. So I'm actually just sort of processing it all right now.

:: 05:47

Yeah, it is quite scary, especially when there's like cameras and like bright lights and stuff. Especially the first few times I was like really dreading.

:: 05:53

Yeah.

:: 05:54

Actually sort of doing the podcast, especially hosting it. There's a few times when I was like, is this what I kind of want?

:: 05:59

to do Like, just keep putting this online.

:: 06:01

But then I think, the way I sort of look at it now is the amount of response we've had from personal DMs of people who are friends of mine that had no idea we're struggling with things.

So, like just want to drop you a private line saying, listen, I'm going through the same thing. I really appreciate that. That kind of motivates us now to keep this going. And I hope there's something like that for you, where you look in your DMs and you see an old message from a friend and you're like oh wow, I never knew that guy was going through the exact or girl was going through the exact same thing I was and it's sort of like a reassuring feeling knowing that you've helped them in a way, I think also.

:: 06:34

I think just being able to share stuff and sharing your story and it's come in terms of, I think that can be quite a cathartic sort of therapeutic experience. And I found that on the first episode. I thought just by coming on here and sharing like-minded stories millions of other people can relate to. I know that Troy's situation would be very similar to that. There'd be thousands of people in our case hundreds of followers watch his story and go, wow, it's amazing how a guy could just be that open and just be completely sort of transparent about his experiences and there'd be many, many people who are likely to be in you and you and Anna Lee and Alan. So just go wow, it's so cool, those guys are going to go on there and have a sort of really nice sort of chill open relaxed conversation.

And then there'll be many people that can relate to it. So I can't wait to get stuck in mate.

:: 07:14

What you touched on at the start was family problems, anxiety, depression as well. Was that something you've gone through?

:: 07:22

Yeah, it's. Yeah, I wouldn't know how to necessarily diagnose it and I think there's. You know, it's not black and white with that stuff. Like I said, I had an amazing childhood. I went to a great school, had some great friends, my dad's an amazing person and I have no complaints. Really, like there's so much actual shit in the world and I had, like I said, I had food on my table all the time, but in terms of like a conventional family, it was never the case for me, so it created a little bit of instability, especially as I got older.

:: 08:02

When you say you didn't really have a conventional family. What do you mean by that? Because obviously I know your background? But for those listening and watching, what do you mean by that?

:: 08:09

Yeah, I mean, obviously my dad was around. He was a very strong figure in my life, always there. My mom passed away when I was six and I had nannies and people I called mom and people were coming in and out of the house looking after me and stuff like that. I had some stability with people who were always there Sally and these kind of people. But I had two older brothers, step brothers. My parents were divorced. My mom died few houses in between moving around a little bit. So yeah, in terms of the sort of insecurity and I definitely did experience a lot of that and it set some, I'd say some negative foundations for trying to make your way in life and, yeah, definitely created a bit of anxiety with school and doing normal things.

:: 09:10

What did you find it like? Because I've never moved house, I've been always in the same place.

:: 09:15

I'm generally curious.

:: 09:16

Did you think that affects you moving house at a young age and you said you were in two or three different houses?

:: 09:22

Do you?

:: 09:22

feel like that's affected you in the long run, or has that not really bothered you?

:: 09:28

I say the. You know the moving house materialistically is. You know it can be challenging. But the real challenge is the instability it's in one family, in one house you're with one set of family members and then you move and then you're with another and then you're with another. So it's the changing of dynamic of the family which is the real issue, rather than actually moving materialistically into a different house. You know it can create a bit of instability. The houses were great, there's no complaints. You know, running water, food, everything was good. But you know, when you take yourself out of that environment and then suddenly you know your brothers aren't there in the house or your mom's not there, you know it's difficult. You go to a new school, yeah, it's just.

:: 10:18

It creates a bit of insecurity, instability, with your normal life, trying to make new friends as well. These schools as well as tough. Do you feel like there was a certain way you coped with the sort of loss of your mom or, you know, your brother's not being there in certain aspects? Was there a way you coped with that or looking back at it, or a way you kind of cope now from that experience?

:: 10:39

No, not at all and I think that's what you know. Pardon my French, but really fucked me up for you know many years, because there was no coping with, you know, losing a mom.

You know six years old so you can't really process what the role of the mom is at that age, especially when they're six. You're six for a long time, but then when that's taken away from you and you sort of just crack on with life, you know things were slightly different. It wasn't so long ago, but things were slightly different back then. So yeah, I think yeah in terms of coping, the main issue was not having the mechanisms in place to cope with something like that In terms of like.

:: 11:23

by beccasisms you mean like talking. Maybe that was like a therapy type thing or sort of having the foundations to you know. Be open about how you're feeling, because is that what you mean by sort of different than to it is now?

:: 11:35

Absolutely, yeah, like you know, death, death is this very, very scary thing, you know, to fear. It's so intense, like the thought of death and people dying is horrible, but it's because it's like it's really really hard subject to talk about. You know, yeah, for sure.

:: 11:54

Sorry to interrupt, I think. Do you think when you lost mum, did you feel like the people were in place for you to talk about that kind of thing? With growing forward into your sort of certainly at the age of six, but certainly into your teenage years, into your sort of young adult years, do you feel like there was an open forum for you to talk to, say, your dad or your brothers or your sister, obviously or not?

:: 12:14

I think they make themselves available and they always say I was available and all that stuff. But you know, as a six-year-old my sister was nine at the time as well you know it's. You know you gotta be nudged like right to the edge to get it all out. You know whether that's like a crazy tantrum or like crying, you know intensely, or screaming, or whatever it is, it doesn't just come out on its own. So in that situation, you know, when you lose a parent, it really does require, when you're that age specifically, it really does require somebody to grab you by the hand and just say look, this is the cards you were dealt like. You gotta deal with this. You know this is life, this is what happens. But giving you that chance to sort of mourn and grieve openly, yeah, it's really important. So I'm not sure that I necessarily did have that, but you know, growing up, as I got older, you know I realized that. You know there are a lot of people to talk to and better late than never really.

:: 13:17

Yeah, I agree. Do you think being older now, more mature in a way, especially the past few years? Are you 28, now 29?

:: 13:24

Yeah, 28.

:: 13:25

So going through approaching 30, is that something you're trying to sort now, in a way is, like you said, better late than never being able to talk. Are you finding that's helping you a lot? You know whether that's talking about how you're feeling or you know. I read this study the other day and it was is it better to talk about it or is it better just to forget about it and not open a wound? Is that the thing? Yeah, like with band-aid, I think, yeah, rip the band-aid off.

What's your view on that? You think that it's helping you a lot, because I know it helps us massively being able to talk about it, and I'm actually the opposite of. If I don't take that band-aid off and address it, it's always in the back of my mind.

:: 14:04

Yeah, I mean it's just looking back like the impact not having a mum has had on certain things that I've done, you know, growing up it's pretty significant. So it's such old news now that it's really really hard to attach much emotion to it.

You know, it's very rarely that I feel sad about it In terms of ripping the band-aid off. I think the band-aid is off. It's just about whether I feel comfortable talking to someone about what happened and losing someone. It makes you quite exposed, so I can have really, really open conversations with my girlfriend and Joe and very, very small amount of people and I saw you said something in your podcast when you're a guest, you can sort of unload. It feels like taking these opportunities to sort of unload as much as you can in a short period of time, you know, it does give you some relief.

So, in that sense, yeah, if you can find an opportunity to talk about it with people that you're comfortable with, then take that opportunity.

:: 15:10

That's the best thing, and get a point of view from them as well. Obviously, no one can experience what you've gone through, but I think just by having someone listen is normally the best.

That's why I always say about my girlfriend is just want to have a problem. I think I said this to you when we did our second one and I was like I feel like I don't want to burden her by telling her these things. And you were like you're not burdening her. They love you and they're there to help you. They're not going to be like, oh, it's fine, you'll forget about it, they're there to listen. And they help you when you actually have proper people who do care about you.

I think it helps massively, especially when you fully talk about it.

:: 15:44

I also think it's keeping it relative. I think Troy's girlfriend's problems are relative to her. And that's going to harm Troy. That's not going to have a bearing on Troy's life. Therefore, getting him or getting her to talk to Troy about her problems isn't a problem for Troy. It's not putting any weight on his life. So I think, it's learning to realize that what you're saying is going to hold that person back and have an impact on them.

I think Troy's in the same boat. Now he's found a few people that he's able to share his thoughts with, he has a bit of a dark day and he's able to open up to whether it be me or his girlfriend or whoever Chesker or sister Then that's the best medicine in my opinion. And also square pegs around holes sometimes. Whatever I can help Troy with sometimes isn't necessarily where his girlfriend could, and vice versa.

So I think it's having a few people who you can open up to at times I think it's really, really important. Glad he's found that.

:: 16:28

Yeah, for sure, that's great. What advice would you give to someone who's gone through what you've gone through, whether they're watching or listening Because I know a lot of the time People do tuning because they can relate to the problem we're talking about? If someone has lost a parent Because I know a few people watching this from my friend side personally have done they've lost a mum, they've lost a dad. What advice would you give them from what you've learned now at age 29? I Mean.

:: 16:53

I think there's two really important lessons. Firstly, the the pain that you feel. You know it comes in waves. It comes in, goes. You know nothing's permanent. You know your happiness is temporary, your, your sadness is temporary. So if you can see that it comes in ebbs and flows, like it's, it becomes much easier to deal with. You know time heals everything. And then the other one is finding the opportunities to talk as much about it as possible. You know it's, it's a very common thing. Everybody has their own. You know scenarios, but you know we're all on this, this world, together. We have so many similar stories. Yeah, finding that one person or two people that you can just, you know, unload on it's, it's fucking good man, it's just like you know, takes, takes a load of pressure off for sure.

:: 17:42

now On the point of Spain, which we talked about before. Hmm, how long ago did you move there?

:: 17:48

I've been in Spain. Move then 2020.

:: 17:52

How's that been? Was that drink after Covid?

:: 17:54

Yeah, I literally moved there two days after the lockdown happened. So I literally just got a flight straight away and I found a, found an Airbnb and I yeah, I moved in and then they locked down, lock down the city.

:: 18:07

So what's the reasoning behind that? Just you needed to just get away with a fresh start type thing, or is that more like a planned? I've always wanted to be in Spain, no.

:: 18:18

Joe will know, you know, joe can tell you my life is always been there's no plan. Really, it's always been super spontaneous, which is that's good, I like that not the best, not the best way to approach things, but I was. I was living and working in Thailand, yeah, and the best time of my life, the best country I've ever been in. Yeah, just just incredible.

Sort of like relaxed culture type thing just the, just the people, the scenery, you know you, you wear one pair of shorts for six, seven months. It's like it's, it's just like no place you've ever been, you know.

And obviously, covid came in and you know we've got the call from the, from the government, from the home office, saying you know you guys got to come back from Asia. Now, like this is, this is getting hairy. So I booked a flight back and Then, yeah, arrived in England that it was raining and it was miserable and everybody looked really, really depressed and Everybody was talking about this, you know, this pandemic coming in. So I booked a flight to a one-way flight to Mallorca Because I knew I wanted to be in an island as far away from the pandemic as possible. And, yeah, that's how I ended up in the Bilarex in Ibiza, in New Yorker the Sun as well.

Yeah, a little bit of sun.

:: 19:29

Singing the house all day.

:: 19:32

About to the again listeners. I don't know about you or watching this, about how you manage to sell the business that you have right now and, obviously, what happened more recently, obviously to the business itself.

:: 19:42

Yeah, so I Mean, I've been wanting to open up my own, the. The original idea was like a restaurant, like a late-night restaurant. Yeah, and COVID sort of shifted my beliefs about, you know, how businesses should operate and you know, waking up earlier and going to bed earlier, like it became. It became a real important thing for me to be able to, you know, be in bed by like 10, 11 pm, you know, and shut off from the world, because before you know, I was, you know, working in the nightlife industry. So it was a lot of late nights and it definitely did take its toll.

So the original plan was obviously to open a restaurant. I met my business partner in the UK and he said, look, we've got this opportunity to do his coffee business, let's open a cafe. And I said to him, look, I'm not gonna, you know, put any money in unless we, unless we do it in Ibiza, because it's the most amazing place, you know, the Bilarex. That's where you can build a proper business out of, with the right culture, you know, being in the sun. It was, it was the right thing to do. So we, yeah, we opened our first branch in Ibiza, in Santalaria, and, yeah, it was, it was going I wouldn't say swimmingly, but it was going. You know it was going good and we expanded the site after about six months. So you know, we have a really, really strong customer base. And Then this year, august 14th, we had a really catastrophic fire, which which caused, you know, a lot of damage to both floors.

:: 21:10

You know the whole restaurant, yeah, cafe.

:: 21:12

but yeah, two floors On a Monday, in the middle of August as well. You know, so we're doing some really good revenue. You know it was full swing of summer, you know it's a seasonal place, and then we had a fire. So you know it was 18 months of an uphill battle to get to a point in August where we were sort of, I wouldn't say cruising, but we were, you know, we're finding our gear.

:: 21:32

And then, yeah, this fire happened and yeah, what's that like mentally when you put 18 months of work money you know in a place you've only been living a couple years into, arguably, your dream? With your business partner and it just burns down over. What was it like a?

:: 21:51

yeah, yeah, something. Yeah, it was actually a mistake, to be honest.

:: 21:55

How was that mentally? I must have been quite frustrating for you.

:: 21:58

Yeah, the reality is is like. You know, the lessons you learn from, from opening your business is is like no other. It's better than a school university you could ever go to. It's it's seriously intense and a business brings out the best and the worst side of you. It really really does play to all your you know your strengths and weaknesses and brings out all your characteristics. So you know, for 18 months pushing this thing up here, you know not taking a salary, like putting every single pound I ever had into this business to try and make it work and then for it to be, you know, taking away like that and pretty much left with nothing, not be able to pay rent. I'll be able to phone bills and all this stuff.

It's, it's, it's intense like I remember the day it happened. You know going in and you know sweeping the water because the firefighters they flooded the place, so sweeping the water off and it was just this weird, eerie silence and I can't, I can't ever describe that feeling. It was like. It was like, yeah, it was, it was traumatic, felt it's, it would. You know you're grieving. It's almost like when you lose something or someone. You know that's an animal, you know, or anything, and it really did feel like that. It was a weird, weird silence and it was sort of like trying to collect yourself and, you know, figure out what, the, what, the next route is. But I was grieving, you know, for about about a week, two weeks after that knew about is it?

:: 23:17

is it back up and running now?

:: 23:18

No, it's closed up for now. We couldn't open again this year. We've got some amazing plans for the new year, but we closed the one in Ibiza. We'll open it again in March, but yeah, we just have to take our time with that one.

:: 23:30

What's it like in terms of being in Spain for your mental health? This is something I'm generally curious about is I feel like a lot of people in the UK are just very depressed, very down. I mean, the weather's awful. It's dark at like 4 o'clock at the moment.

What's it like actually coming back to the UK from living in Spain. Is there a big difference in like how people feel out there? I mean what I saw on your Instagram. It just looks amazing all the time, like sunny, you're next to the beach, like yeah, it's a great life, everyone looks healthy. And then you come back to UK. In my opinion, what from if I've been on holiday and come back to UK? I look at everyone, everyone's just pale.

:: 24:06

Yeah, and.

:: 24:06

I'm just like wow, like you don't realize it, until you've gone away somewhere for like maybe two weeks and you come back in your tandem. Everyone else just looks really miserable, pale and like it's dark at four o'clock. What was actually like being out there.

:: 24:20

Well, I take it back a little bit like growing up, you know had had these challenges and struggles and one of the major things was just looking out my window and just you know, seeing darkness and gray and yeah.

I just thought it was really shit. I really did like every day. I remember just getting the train and being wet and seeing people's face. I just thought this, this can't be the life. So I always tried to find. You know, I moved to Sydney to live there for a beer. I always trying to find places which is which is sunny, and that's something I've always tried to talk to my nephews about, or any person who's younger than me is just leaving school now. Like home is not home, where you think home has to be, like you can go out there and find a new place, especially if the sun does it for you. There's a lot of countries and a lot of places out there where you can be outside most of the time. The impact it has on your happiness is crazy. Just the biology of being out in the sun and getting the vitamin D in your hair and your skin. It's facts.

:: 25:25

Just look how much more healthy he looks compared to us. Probably going to watch from the camera being like this guy just looks like a different person.

:: 25:32

No, what I would say about Troy saying is I used to correct me if I'm wrong a bit, but I used to think Troy was sort of running away from his responsibilities a little bit by going all this trouble. I get. I've known Troy for forever, going to Asia and Australia. I thought when Troy goes through something bad, I thought he's just running away. But actually the more I've got to know him more recently, and I think actually he's just born to be in the sun, he's born to be by the ocean, with next to the waves, in a sort of not so built up dark, dingy place, and the more I've got to know him and seeing him settling in Spain, as you can see, that's just what he's born for.

Home is where the heart is and his heart is by the sea, it's by the water, it's in the sun. That's where he's meant to be. It's not meant to be in a tower block flat in London. It's not as nice as that might have been from growing up in London, but like that's just where he's supposed to be. And that's what I, my thought was judging him for, that, thinking he's just running away. But actually it's just where he's meant to be, yeah, yeah.

:: 26:23

I love it. I was listening to just before I forget, I was listening to Gary Brecker you heard of.

:: 26:28

Gary Brecker.

:: 26:29

The 10X guy. You heard of him. He was on the Joe Rogan podcast and he was saying how the human body is supposed to be outside 85% of the time and it's supposed to be inside 15%, but at the moment, especially in the UK and the US, people are inside 97% of the time and outside 3% and he was like that's not how your body is supposed to be and, all jokes aside, just from knowing you're like 45 minutes, there's such a big difference in like how we all look, everyone behind the scenes. To compare how you look if you're outside all the time in the sun, like you look like 10 times healthier than all of us.

It's not rocket science is it?

:: 27:05

I think it's just like.

:: 27:06

Yeah.

:: 27:08

I just think like being in the UK is just like I came on before, is very like dark, it's very wet. You can never really get a good flow if you want to go outside. One day it's snowing, the next is 30 degrees out and I think that's actually quite a negative in terms of mental health as a whole, especially for me. Like we talked about, seasonal disorder, is it?

:: 27:28

Yeah, so seasonal, yeah, seasonal effected disorder.

:: 27:31

Something I think I'm struggling with quite a lot is, especially when the clocks went back. I really struggled with my routine and getting in a good mental health space, if you could say, and at the moment I've really struggled with getting to grips with it. It was only like three, four weeks ago I think it was the clock change. I could be wrong, but I think, like I said before, being in a country like that, the community of people is where everyone on the my favorite place is Lisbon, which obviously is not in Spain, but everyone on the streets is happy, everyone's just. It feels like a community.

I feel like when you go to places like Ibiza, whether it's Lisbon, in my point of view, being part of that community makes me happy and my mental health is always better when I come back or I'm there. Is that, have you felt like being part of that community in Ibiza, or being part of that community when you're in Thailand, has helped you sort of cope in a way? You know you talked about not coping very well by actually thinking in a way that kind of is coping being part of a community, being in a place you love, waking up to these amazing views in the sun. Do you think that's helped you being part of a proper community like that?

:: 28:38

Yeah, I mean, the number one thing that I can really vouch for is just being outside, like any excuse to be outside, so you can take inspiration and find energy from being outside. You know trees, plants, whatever it is. It's so important. It's one of the main reasons why I got a dog is because I just felt like going outside. You know, just walking aimlessly was really, really challenging for me, but with my dog, like we adventure, we go see things, and it was one of the reasons why I love Thailand a lot. You know pre-dog. You know I was walking around everywhere in the same swim shorts for six, seven months straight. It just being out and adventuring.

You know how humans are supposed to be it's our nature to explore, to adventure and, yeah, walking to and from the restaurants and bars and whatever it. You know the gym, it's so important. You don't get the same stimulation walking down the high street. You know, to your gym, to your house, when it's raining and it's gray, but you know getting outside as much as you can. I love that.

:: 29:41

So, thinking about the gym, what impact has being physically active done for you, because I know that you and I speak a lot about this and you, growing up, troy was a very talented footballer, but gym was never really a thing for him. What kind of impact is joining the gym and being physically active had on you the last couple of years?

:: 29:57

I realized I've got a huge. This is only in the last 18 months having a business I realized I've got a huge chink in my armor and that's aggression. Like I have some real issues with aggression and handling certain situations and I think that's you know, that's various different reasons from you know, growing up, and I think a lot of people experience that as well. They don't know how to channel their anger and certain things trigger them and I found certain things are really really triggering me and there was no healthy way to combat those or you know I was going down the wrong route. The gym was just for me to just escape, go and put my headphones in and, just, you know, smash out a few sets. I'm still waiting for that gym routine for three years. I asked him September 2020.

:: 30:52

I'm still waiting.

:: 30:53

He's planning it, it's really a fucking good session.

:: 30:58

We always talk about it, don't we? That's why we gym, that's why, in a way, that's why I play rugby, that's why, I guess, that's why you play rugby as well.

Like that's an out for me and I go home and I know I'm, you know things aren't going to bother me as much and it does go. I took a hit on the head on Saturday, got concussion from it. That does really bother me. It's just like the idea that I might not be able to play something, whether it's even in for a few weeks, because I do become a different person. Every time I've had a shoulder surgery and ankle surgery, you know I've become quite nasty to be around, whether that's, you know, not like in a malicious fighting way, just like very on edge all the time, very snappy, very aggressive yeah you do.

I really think you do, whether that's gym, I love the CrossFit stuff as well I think more my competitive side is like looking at like high rocks and things that, when I'm not playing, being part of that environment where you are channeling your aggression in somewhere. So when it comes to business, you're, you know you have a level head and you're not reacting of how you feel you're reacting of what actually needs to be done. I think that's so important.

:: 32:01

Definitely.

:: 32:02

Coming back. I wanted to come back to the point before I forget on your family. It's Christmas now and Christmas is a very tough time. I had quite a few facts and figures here. I'll share in a second about Christmas and families as a whole. Do you find Christmas quite a tough time, you know, coming back to the UK, or is it something that you actually, you know, enjoy, fully embrace and enjoy?

:: 32:23

Yeah, it's a really good question. Christmas is this weird event where it's like, so family orientated.

And then for those who haven't got the perfect family setup, I honestly remember going up and seeing like these perfect families, family Christmas holidays, the perfect, you know, the Christmas day, opening the presents, the boxing day and all that stuff, and you know I was always like I want that, like that's the perfect scenario for me. We typically don't do a family Christmas together. It's not usual. I'm always away in various places. This year, actually, is the first time that I'll be with my sister and my old man and my little sister, but it's a very, very weird time for people. Yeah, I find it can bring out a really, really awful part of you which is feels very, very, you know, longing for something that will never happen. Yeah, you know. So it's very, very tricky, yeah.

:: 33:28

I feel like Christmas is a tough time. So some of the stats I have here is a survey found that over 60% of people feel like spending time with family is the best part of Christmas, with around one in three people report feeling more lonely during the Christmas season and those have lost loved ones or far from family. I feel like it's this sort of either, or there doesn't seem to be much of it in between. It's either like Christmas can be stressful if you lost loved one, if you know gone through a divorce, if you not close with your family, if you moved away, and on the other hand, it can be seen as like great. I think it's one of those weird times where, like I said before, you're even very happy, or it's a stressful time, especially financially as well, and a lot of the Christmas I found for myself, especially buying gifts.

This year I was like financially quite stressed out and that's not good for my mental health as a whole. Like in the back of your head. You know that whole financial stress of it, but what's your kind of view on? You know the finances behind Christmas. 30% of people report financial stress is causing them to actually not enjoy Christmas as a whole. You know, I'll give you one in three people. That's pretty, pretty tough to go through at the moment as well.

:: 34:38

I mean realistically, if you're a proper family and and you know you've got your cards on the table, people know your situation.

You can just send a message and say, look, I'm not liquid right now, but the pressure of you know keeping up this charade of you know happy families, I think I think it's, I don't think it's real. I think I think you've got to be completely honest. Presence is just presence in Christmas. It's just a really, really weird concept the whole thing to me. Honestly, it's very, very peculiar. I get it as a gesture. It's amazing. You can do sentimental things for really, really cheap. They can be, you know, time consuming, but you know you can create photo albums as well for five, six, seven quid or whatever it is. I've set the rules with my, my Mrs this Christmas as well. We said, look, we're not liquid, we can't get each other these nice expensive gifts.

And you know, last year she got me an Apple Watch and and you know, it's just, it's just not possible this year. So we're doing a sentimental gift for each other and that's it.

:: 35:35

Coming back to the facade around family and I know this is very close to your heart is talking about love, like love and loss and grief. It's something again far closer to home for you and more recently, is Justin. So for those that don't know about, about Justin, tell us a little bit about you. Know what happened to you with your family and Justin itself. Obviously, we're on that situation.

:: 35:57

Yeah, justin, justin was my older, older brother, stepbrother, half brother, so this from my mom's side, same mom and then, you know, in 2018, he, you know, he, he took his own life. So it's, it's a very, very weird, even now, just trying to talk about that. I've never, actually, I don't think I've ever said that sentence. It's just very, very strange and, yeah, just a just a crazy, crazy event which you never expect to happen. And yeah, it's, you know, that's, that's a sort of life changing thing that you know, you keep keep with you forever. Yeah, justin, you know we I've got another older brother, umar Umar Justin, my sister, and then my little sister, but out of everyone, I think you know it's fair to say that the connection with between me and Justin, you know, was really really strong.

People say, people have challenged it and said why, you know, why was it? Why? Why him Like, why were you so close with him? I think it's really hard. Sometimes you can't really describe connection. Sometimes connection is just connection, you know. Sometimes you meet your soulmate and you just you just vibe Um. So, yeah, I mean, justin was sort of my, my person, you know he was, he was the person I wanted to be around all the time, the person I looked up to. So, yeah, it was a pretty, pretty tough pill to swallow.

:: 37:25

How's that been sort of dealing with? You said that was the first time you probably talked about it is, in a way, or said that sentence is now how does that kind of feel you know, addressing that it was?

:: 37:35

five and a half five years ago now.

:: 37:36

Yeah. How is it feeling five years on from that sort of situation? How's your mindset changed around it?

:: 37:47

Yeah, it's, it's weird, it's, it's uh, yeah, it's caught me off guard a little bit, because you sweep these kind of things under the rug. You time, time moves and you learn to to live, you learn to just continue with your life, but the reality is that, like there's a huge part of your life which is not there anymore. So there's moments, you know, when you really really feel it, but the show must go on is like a phrase that I always say to myself. Sorry, I don't necessarily think it's the most healthy way to to deal with things, but uh, yes, it's a really good question. And you know, five, six years, even you just saying that now, I can't really believe that. That's how much time has passed you know it feels like yesterday that you know we were.

we were laughing on the phone together, but then at the same time it's like a whole lifetime you've lived without them now so yeah, yeah, I just want to say we spoke, we spoke.

:: 38:51

I thank you for that, by the way.

:: 38:52

That's a really hearty talk about.

:: 38:54

I think we speak about therapy a lot on this and I've been very open about my struggles, and Tom as well, about our journey through therapy and about sort of kissing a free frog to find the right one. I think that's what the phrase I use in the first one is what role is therapy had on you? Because I know that you you were seeing someone for a while in the therapy realm. What did that have that manifested in you? Or what kind of therapy did you go down and all that kind of thing.

:: 39:18

It was important at the time to to unload as much as possible. I actually don't think therapy is for everyone. I really don't, and I think it worked for me temporarily, but that's right, I was at face to face with one person.

:: 39:36

Yeah, face to face.

:: 39:39

Yeah, yeah. I think I think channeling your own thoughts and, you know, working on yourself is really, really important. I think therapy really really does help to bring out, you know, bad situations and a lot of grief shortly after. The irony is like, in the last three months I found a method which has just completely changed my life and my friend just suggested to me after the fire, actually on a whim. He just said look, you're at rock bottom, now just get yourself. He actually bought me a book and it was empty book and he just said just write some stuff down. And the irony is that this has been the most helpful thing for me. I think everybody's different, but having a book and just writing my shit down has really really helped me. I wish I knew or I wish I used that at the time, you know, five, six years ago. That would have been the best outlet for me. But yeah, it's funny that I've only just discovered that now you're not 28 years old. Better than ever.

:: 40:47

Does it feel like a release that's journaling right? Yeah, does that feel like a release when you do it?

:: 40:52

No, my girlfriend calls it journaling.

:: 40:53

I hate to mention it, my little pink fluffy bed. Does that feel like a release when my legs are in the air?

:: 41:03

No, you know what it's actually. I actually call it scripting. I don't know if you had a scripting before, but I talk about how I want to feel. I talk about where I want to be and I always reference not having a mom and losing my brother like that and not having the most straightforward family life, and I always reference how I can change my. I can't do anything about the cards I was dealt, but the only thing I can do is now change my decisions. I have full control over my decisions and how to shape my life and create the things that I want to create, and that's why I call it scripting. Other people call it scripting and I learn how to do it and it's about where I want to be and I want the conventional family the mom, the dad, husband and wife, the kids, the stability. That's what I want. I don't want any of this shit anymore. That's why I found scripting really, really relieving, because it gives me so much hope that I can actually affect and impact how I want my life to be.

:: 42:08

Last thing I wanted to talk about was what some of the main lessons you've had from 2023 as a whole now will come into the end of the year.

:: 42:20

The important lessons are patience, patience in a lot of scenarios. Patience is really, really important when you're dealing with tricky situations and, yeah, just taking a step back and thinking there's a reason why all of this is happening. It allows you to plan and structure your life in a way that you need to react to certain situations. But I really do think, for me personally, patience was something that I needed to learn. What would yours?

:: 42:58

be, I'd say, probably being less hard on myself. When I'm at mistakes I'm used to being very, very hard on myself I probably still am a little bit and taking a step back and slowing down a little bit, I think as well, taking stock sometimes, which I'm probably not very good at doing.

:: 43:14

But yeah, probably that's the I think mine would probably be just backing your intuition. Like you, know yourself better than anybody and I'd always let outside noise sort of dictate what I was doing. But if I have a vision, just go for it. And when you go for it, just go bull to the wolves. Don't listen to what everyone else is saying. Everyone's going to tell you you could do this better, but no one's been in your shoes. No one knows what you're going through or why you're doing it. What's the purpose is. Yeah, trust your gut. That would probably be my main one. The next question I wanted to ask was going to 2024, do you have any goals set for 2024 or where you want to be by the end of the year, or is that kind of spontaneous? As you said, the rest of the stuff you're doing is at the moment.

:: 43:56

I think you take certain actions and then you end up in different paths, but the main goal is to be obviously super liquid, having a lot of freedom with my girlfriend. I want to be able to spend a lot of time with her my dogs as well and that runs with having a really really smooth operating business and, yeah, just getting everything back up and running. Really, we've got amazing plans for Naked Ground. Naked Ground is the coffee company for the new year. A lot of it is based in the UK as well.

:: 44:33

So, yeah, just having that really really efficient and working smoothly is where I want to be Love that Probably really honing in on my business, making it something more financially feasible for myself to do a bit more than having the financial freedom. I think, that's what Troy said. And then, secondly, getting out there and getting a summer job working for Naked Ground, I think after where it sounds like working out there, I think I'm going to get some. You're hired.

:: 45:03

I love that I'll be sick. 2022,. To be fair, I've asked a question, though I wouldn't say I've even sat down and had a proper thing. But I'm quite spontaneous in a way. I feel like next week I can meet someone and that would change my whole trajectory on the way I go, whether it's in business or my personal life. But I say for 2024 as a personal goal is to keep doing what I'm doing and not backtrack.

ommitted. I think my goal for: 2024