InsideAMind of Pele Zac | How To Find Your Purpose After A Sporting Career #33

:: 00:01

How are we doing, guys? And welcome back to the podcast. Join the team at Cube, elephant and Castle today as we welcome Pele Zak as a guest, super excited for this one. Really hope you enjoy the episode and, by the way, don't forget to like and subscribe to the channel below. Enjoy.

:: 00:17

Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Tom, I'm Joe and this is Inside of Mind, a podcast brought to you by the iam podcast team, and season two is focusing on men's mental health and well-being. It's an absolute pleasure to be joined by a special guest today. It's Pele. Thank you so much for coming on thanks for having me guys.

:: 00:35

Awesome to be here, excited to get into a good conversation and, uh, unpack some mental health bits we always start off.

:: 00:41

Uh, each episode just explain a bit about the viewers and listeners, a bit about you and a bit about your story.

:: 00:48

I always think where to start with this. So Whistle Stop Tour. Football was always a main kind of pillar of my life, the main anchor from when I was young and that really helped me to navigate school, which was quite tough for me, which we can unpack as we get into the podcast, but through football I kind of found myself, really found my passion, passion for sport.

moved to Barcelona at 15 to play football, which was at the time, a lot of people said to me that's quite a bold move, leaving your family, but for me it was a natural next step.

ogressed to opening robots in: 2019

:: 01:58

Obviously we'll touch on robots, we'll touch on the men's community. I just want to start off with the football side of things like why did your love for football and sports start at that age? Just going to barcelona at 15, that's a big move. That's not just like a moving school, that's a moving country. Whole new environment, new language. How did you find that?

:: 02:15

yeah, it's weird at the time, you know, when you've got in your head an obvious move, like you know what lights you up, but for someone else it's quite foreign and everyone was like to me.

Moving home, moving out of home at 15 is quite a big move, but school wasn't a vibe for me. Like I had quite a tough time at school, expelled, suspended, didn't really get on with the schooling system in the UK. So when it came up I was like this is, this is me. I'm locked in. Football's always been the thing that kept me disciplined and focused. Moved to Barcelona and I think it was the like the realization that school finishes, go to college, go to uni kind of delay, making a real choice about what you want to do with your life. That was one route for me. Or I'm good at football, I love football, it's my passion. Move there. The next step's not very certain, but it's going to be. Give me a good foundation to then build upon with my career and if that fails, I'll have that as an experience and that was my, that was my kind of main driving force absolutely.

:: 03:12

I love that. What was your sort of love for football at that age? Like I know for myself playing sport growing up, it was kind of everything and that sort of like love for football oh sorry, in my case, love for rugby and cricket. I kind of lost at that age. Did you find? When you went over there and you went fully into it, going through the injuries you went through, you lost the love for it or it sort of like increased the love for it. Moving to Spain yeah, good question.

:: 03:36

Um, in UK I was a good player. Moving to Barcelona, players from all over the world, were there a lot of South Americans? And I realized don't know exact kind of intricate details of rugby, but were there a lot of South Americans and I realised I don't know the exact kind of intricate details of rugby, but the football world a lot of it is technical and you've got bigger lads. I was quite boisterous for my age and I was quite kind of robust as a player centre-back, but the skill wasn't really my back compared to the boys in South America. So, moving there was a big wake-up call of like OK, I'm going to have to make up kind of lost space here with regards to my work effort or my ability to turn up and put the work in, because these lads here are much more skilled than me. So I think I lost some of the love for it when I realised that now it's almost a job. There's money on my table, there's politics and you see certain players making kind of progressions you know like hold up, how's that working? You realise that if you know certain people or no one cares how you are as a person, right like you're a pawn on the pitch essentially, and performance is what drives your progression, whether you train hard, whether you're a good person or not, that's not relevant. And I think as a young age in London I was always um champion for being a hard worker, but over there it was like play well or there's no war. It was quite like a rude awakening and I think I just dented my passion for the sport a little bit. But it was also that was the next chapter of my life, so I was like suck it up and kind of like crack on.

Was it quite a lonely experience? It was initially because I spoke no spanish so I moved there. Quite a funny story my dad took me in april for a week trial, was there with my dad, felt quite supported, came home, had about four months in london, then moved there permanently with my dad, felt quite supported, came home, had about four months in London, then moved there permanently with my dad for two days and then he came home. That's when I realised like fuck, now I'm here, speak no Spanish. All the boys here are from South America. They've got their own little clan. So the initial period was super lonely and again like obviously you're a team and a family through the game, but when you're not playing on the pitch, it's different. It's different exactly.

:: 05:24

Yeah what age were you when you went through your injury? Was that 18?

:: 05:29

so I had two knee ops.

:: 05:30

First one was 18, second was 19 how was that same injury other knee, acl right no, meniscus, yeah, yeah, how was it?

:: 05:39

it was. It was hard. As you know, injuries are tough right. When I was that young, I had no idea what the process was for injuries like I'd had injuries in london, but like minor things, but I didn't have a serious injury that required an operation and kind of proper in-depth rehab. And again it was a chapter of like fuck, you're kind of solo here, parents were in london, you're 18. In the operating theater. The next nine months is quite uncertain. So it was tough to to swallow. But also I was like you got a role with it right. Like it's not really my choice. I'm getting paid to play, so you're a pawn and to get you to a place where you can play again.

:: 06:15

You're having an, whether you, whether you like it or not I think when people think of injuries, just in my opinion, they think of the physical side. They don't think of the mental side and what I found really hard for those of you listening who don't know I had ankle surgery so I dislocated my ankle. So I have a plate in my ankle which I was out for six months with when playing rugby when I was 20. When I was 19, I dislocated my shoulder so I got 50 stitches and six bolts in my shoulder. Wow, um.

But people don't seem to talk about the like the mental side of it, or that's not really what's seen when you're going into your physio sessions and you're coming back from it and you're you're feeling good and you're like this is kind of my livelihood if I want to make it a professional athlete or if I am a professional athlete, if you don't pay, you don't get paid, and that sort of like mindset is, I found, screwed with me massively and I know you've gone through something similar with your neck and retiring from rugby as well is just that whole mental preparation side of you know.

You've got nine months ahead of you where you're going to watch everyone progress and you're going to feel like you're regressing massively and you're going to miss those opportunities. When you come back you're going to have to earn them all again. I feel like that's not really spoke about as much maybe a bit more at the moment, but that's a side which I found incredibly hard. Did you find that hard? Especially when you did it the second time? Because that second one for me, I was like I can't do this, I can't go through this again.

:: 07:40

How did you find that? First it was yours.

:: 07:41

Was it a re For my ankle one shoulder was completely out of the blue Ankle one. I'd rolled my ankle a lot and then it was obviously loose. And then I've been playing through those sprains and I was like I can't not play. I had the Scotland 20s trials coming up and I was like, damn, I need to play, I'll just push through it. And then I just played a game and it went snap, completely, went Whole. And it went snap, completely, went um, whole deltoid. When cartilage went, uh, dislocated it, and it was just like an awful kind of feeling. What's happened? So that was, yeah, that was a reoccurring one which, in the back of my head, probably, if I could go back and do it again, would just rest on those uh sprains off today.

Yeah, when you're in the middle of it. You're just you're trying to fight for arguably your job, right, you're trying to fight for arguably your job, right, you're trying to fight for what you've dreamt about since you were a kid and that whole mental side really fucked me up like part of my language, but really screwed with me, screwed my relationship, screwed with you know how I viewed sport as a whole and that's why I just was curious on your front, you know, looking back at it now, did you find that it screwed with you massively? But coming on, sorry, seven, eight years, ten years from, what lessons did you take from that which you're now, arguably could be more resilient from it?

:: 08:56

excuse me, great question, man. Um, at the time it all happened so quickly again. It was like you're injured, you're having an operation, this is the rehab process. You kind of you're it's well looked after and you're essentially you're spoon-fed, but having time to really sit on it once you've had the operation and you're in that rehab phase and you're watching your teammates excel and also you're reminded daily that, like you can't do what you love.

And for me at that time in my life, what I was there to do felt quite like purposeless, like what am I? What am I doing? Obviously, rehab in that initial phase was super slow. So it's like turning up to the rehab clinic doing the work, seeing no progression, not really sure of what's going to happen, not really sure if you might get to a certain stage. You're good to play, but then, like you said, someone's filled your spot or you re-injure yourself. And the mental side of it for me was more challenging. For the first one because it was unknown. The second one, I was like been here before and I really like put my attention and my efforts into learning about mindset and really realizing like there's a lot of negative thoughts on one shoulder. What can I do to try and counteract that with some more positive thoughts, and that's when I started to look into how you can not control your thoughts, but have some power over how you think but, more importantly, which thoughts you give volume to I'm really sorry.

:: 10:10

Go on. No, I was curious as to where you got that from, because being on your own at such young age yeah. Was that coached in you from someone else, or did you just sort of learn on the go?

:: 10:19

we had a sports psychotherapist but it was quite like loose. It was more about like performing in front of people and essentially not attaching your value to being a good or bad player on the pitch. But there was no talk really around mindset as in it was. It wasn't a structured um. The sessions weren't structured. They were more like what are you suffering with? And a lot of the boys there found it hard to be in front. A lot of people, I think, just like stumbling across youtube videos. To be honest, way back when I had so much free time, like I was either having rehab two, three hours a day or chilling, so I thought let me put my energy units into something and I think it just lit me up and that was like finding a new passion alongside football, which now is much. Obviously it's a much bigger passion of mine and that's how I started and then from there, just like down the rabbit hole books, podcasts, conversations and kind of like built out my um, my passion for it the willing to learn as well totally yeah, and I've always been someone who loves to learn when I'm into it, but at school I was like see my language, fuck this, that's not my vibe when I'm

:: 11:15

in something like now I'd love to go to uni because I'm really passionate about certain things, whereas at school I was like you didn't really know I think that's one of the hardest things, is like finding your purpose, in a way, and I actually just I saw a tiktok post which is a convenient the other day where it was just saying if you don't know what you want to pursue, pursue yourself. And I thought that was like a really powerful statement, because I think there's a lot of people, especially my age, who don't know what they want to do. And I feel like I was just there. I remember having a chat with you like a year and a half ago, being like I don't have a clue what I want to do, but I know I want to do something. And then that like pursuit of yourself, pursuing yourself in health and wellness you know relationships, a path seems to form from there and I actually think it's quite a powerful thing once you put yourself out there to see where you actually can go down the line.

:: 12:02

And I think the challenge that as well. I think it's like, even if you do have a deep passion, still pursue yourself along the side. Like it's so easy, I think, to have a career path that you love. Say you work I'm not like I'm not against office jobs. Say you work an office job and you're super passionate about it. You love helping your clients in that respect, but you don't focus on yourself, whether it's a passion, side, project, side hustle, health, fitness, relationships, fast forward like 10 years. You might be like fuck this career, I'm done with this now I want to move but not really have anything else in your life. I think it's so easy to get sucked into putting your eggs in one basket, whether it is your career or your financial freedom goal or whatever it might be, rather than having different strands of your personality that you really like, lean into and kind of give effort to.

:: 12:43

It's a great point you make, I think also, I think taking you back to the time where you realize that football was over for you and you had nothing really to fall back onto in terms of a career because school wasn't for you. What was that like? Post two operations, just having the rug pulled from your feet being like football was now over for me, because I think the same for me and you. I think I would have loved nothing more than a career in rugby.

Yeah, of course, and the day that I realized it was going to be for me was it was quite hard because, again, like you, school didn't agree with me. I didn't. I wasn't one for enjoying going to school at all. I enjoy the social side of it, but I hated the exams. I couldn't cope with exams at all, so for me I felt purposeless and for me it was quite hard to then find that elsewhere because I put all my eggs in that one basket. I'm just curious. The day that you found out that football was going to be no longer what happened, then it's almost like going back in my head now, 10 years.

:: 13:32

I'd always identified as a footballer also my name, pele, right? So whether I played or not? First question is oh my god, you play football.

:: 13:37

I get it now still every time.

:: 13:39

Yeah, I meet someone and it's not the case. But my whole identity in life was Pelé's, a footballer. So you'd come home, all your mates and family and friends are like how's football? Who are you signed to? You get used to that being you, but also who you are in everyone else's eyes. Yes, exactly, so you almost live into that existence because it's like, well, they think I'm a footballer. I do play football, that's my main passion. You become that person as you guys to do some thinking about who I want to be and football.

Obviously it was choice, but I fell into it and it became me pretty quick, without thought, whereas post-football I had a year and a half in London of just like really finding my feet. Coming back to the UK, all my friends were big into the drug scene, which was naturally what I fell into, and I think, as I mentioned to you previously in this chat, like a lot of people often talk about that as a negative time of their life, but for me it was a really positive time, like I had a great time. Touch wood, never had any bad experiences. Some of my best friends are from that time my life, even though now obviously we're both very different, and I kind of sat in that, like this is a necessary part of my growth, like I don't know what the fuck I want to do right now. I'm with good people, having good time, still pursuing mindset on my side and my training, and then just let things unravel as they did. But I didn't try and put too much control over it all.

:: 15:00

I feel like why I spoke to Johnny Wilkinson, the ex-rugby player. I asked him sorry, I just wanted to say I don't want to interrupt you before about the identity side of things, because I spoke to him 10 minutes after a podcast saw me of one of our clients and I was like have you found it hard post rugby? Because you say the word Johnny Wilkinson, you think rugby world cup winner, you think winning drop goal, amazing rugby player, I'd be England's best 10 ever. Does anyone see like Johnny Wilkinson, who loves spirituality, who loves breath, work and, you know, loves playing basketball on his own and little things? I was how have you found that post rugby? With the identity side? And he, his advice was you can't be half in with it. He was like if I leave half of my rugby jersey on for myself personally, he was like people will just keep associating me with it. He was like what he said he learned was he just had to strip it. Keep associating me with it. He was like what he said he learned was he just had to strip it all off and almost restart. And he said that was a horrible first one or two years post-retirement. You know he still loves rugby but people are starting to see him now less as johnny wilkinson the rugby player and more is johnny person yeah, the guy from surrey and he was just like it's one of the hardest things he's had to do.

And that also gave me a lot of peace of mind, because I struggle with that identity piece as well, of being like family friends. The first question everyone would ask is like how's rugby going? Or how's this going, how's the sport going? And now I'm starting to find, like the minute I stripped it all away and it wasn't like not talk about it, but just like kind of put that as a past chapter the first questions people are starting to ask now are how's the podcast going? Or, you know, how's the business going? Or how's Meg or whatever it is, which is quite a nice change to see. But it was also quite reassuring to know that someone of his magnitude and what he's achieved has also gone through that identity crisis and is still, you know, making his way through it and learning there's a lot of peace of mind for me in that yeah, I would guess it's the same all the way to the top.

:: 16:59

Like you say, someone of that caliber. You know feeling that kind of emotion and someone actually asked me last week a piece of advice for someone in a similar position. I said, like destroy and rebuild, like be willing to not destroy, isn't that was a negative part of me, but like you're more than that and that could be a chapter. It could be a year, five years, 10 years or 50 years, but like we can go through iterations of ourself and that can always be something that's taught us lessons and essentially for me, that's made a lot of my, the building blocks that have built out who I am today from my sporting background, I'm sure similar to you guys and that's a very positive thing, yeah, but so many guys that I chat to who have had turbulent sporting careers have ended through to injury still attach themselves to that and it's like you need to not move on but accept that, like that's no longer you, and I think some dads then you know, live through their kids feet on the pitch.

You become the dad that's like and you can see that, and I have players on my team who had dads like that and I was like, bro, your life, your football life, is done. Let your kid play football if he wants to, but if he doesn't, don't, try. And, yeah, live through his feet. And it must be a tough upbringing when you feel like you're trying to live for the goal that your parent never hit, you know. So I think that's yeah to your point. Super super powerful, completely, really good point you make?

:: 18:13

actually, I want to pick your brain is there are the football teams, clubs doing enough to help young people that don't make it as a career in football? Because the 0.1 percent of young children who end up being a professional footballer won't make it like one by 0.1, but it's such a small percentage of people from young boys and girls who go on to make and be the next ronaldo. Christian said that as well.

Christian Scales said this in one of the first episodes we did and he mentioned how the aftercare of clubs. I wanted to get your view on what you think the clubs should do better or if they are doing enough to help young boys, because the suicide rates in football clubs of young men in particular, young boys who are cut from man City, chelsea Spurs at the age of 11 or 12, whose whose entire lives have been football, have got nothing to fall back on because, a bit like you, with school, it was football or nothing. You had to put all your eggs in one basket. Do you think clubs are doing enough to help young boys and girls with that?

:: 19:00

Really good question. I couldn't comment on how things are now, and when I was in the UK at Tottenham for a bit I was young In Spain you were champion purely on your performance. The best players on the team, no word of a lie. They eat first. You're front of the queue, and if you're not front of the queue and you walk to front of the queue, no one's saying shit, which straight away reaffirms to everyone this person's better than you.

You might be a better player on the pitch if we got top trumps out, but you're a human and when you're not given support to reintegrate into the world, then part of your identity is left within that place and I think you have to be given support and building blocks and a support of community and environment to thrive outside of a sport or at least go through some sort of psychological support to understand that you have more to add to the world than this player that was cut because you weren't good enough or was cut due to injury. So in spain it was um, it was quite toxic, like I was around players that now are playing in different professional teams, not super high level, but playing around the world, and they still get championed based on their performance 10 years ago in that club, and I think you need to be. People need to leave those teams and those clubs, associations with some support to reintegrate into the world because, like you say, identity is a huge part of what we live by and if it's not secure, then negative things happen.

:: 20:19

so in the uk I'm not sure, but in spain it wasn't positive at all yeah I think more needs to be done, yeah I would like to touch on um, on robots. But the reason why is um? I'd be curious to see like being an entrepreneur. Now I see a lot of high-level athletes, people that have played high-level football, high-level rugby, seem to have a massive tolerance for the stress levels that come with that entrepreneur mindset of things. Have you found that co-founding robots? Have you found that your lessons from sport, that resiliency side, that determination, determination, that grit side at a young age, has allowed you to manage it easier than you would have done, say, if you didn't have that path?

:: 21:00

I think a lot of my personality traits come from sport and especially from being. I was a hard worker, but I was never the best player on the pitch, but I was always a first team player, purely because I put more work in, because I was like, if I want to close the gap between these players that are much more highly skilled than me, I've got a bit more work in them, and that's been my. My philosophy since then and something I unpacked my therapist years ago was like life's not all about performance. Like you can have more than just how you perform, whether it's financially, your status, your ego, whatever the things are like. There's more to it than that.

My relationship with work in the past definitely wasn't healthy because my tolerance to it was super high, which meant that 16, 18 hour days when it had to be done were like cool tick a box. That's not healthy. That becomes normal. So I think, to answer your question, definitely yes, it helped me to build a tolerance to hard work, but not in a healthy way, and also because a sporting career you train to perform on a pitch, entrepreneurship everything's in one mixing pot. Like you're always training but you're always performing. There's no end point, there's no like train, train, train, recover, perform and then recover again. It's like go, go, go and the more you get, the more you want sometimes. So I think it has. But initially in my career, or at least building robots, it wasn't a healthy relationship which if I go back and change, I probably wouldn't.

:: 22:18

But I wouldn't recommend someone else to attack it the same way I did I'd be curious to see what's the biggest moment of doubt you've had when starting robots oh, good question.

:: 22:29

Um, there's never been a moment of doubt. The massive, honest answer, because we've got a fucking powerful team and the vision, the passion is just like through the roof however, covid was hard.

I think the fact that covid was like a staggered process right, like it was three weeks and then it was a month and then it was six and it was a year it wasn't like you got three years now, whatever it was, so it was quite like a. It was a reactive period, right, a lot of innovation, iteration on the spot, so it wasn't as daunting as knowing we're going to be closed for a year. But the biggest moment of doubt, if there was one, would have been probably during COVID. Are we going to be allowed to function as a group X facility like we used to, which was completely out of our hands, which is why it was a bit of doubt there, whereas since we've reopened, since then it's been hard always, but always growing Love that.

:: 23:19

For those that don't know watching and listening, explain a little bit about what you guys do and how your business operates.

:: 23:25

Yeah, yeah. So Robots sorry I say it like everyone knows, but obviously it's in my head. Right, right, robots is a group x facility, so split concept. Half the room is rowing we've got water rowers which are very, um, user-friendly, intuitive, and then half the room is on the floor dumbbells, kettlebells, d-balls. So the floor is very structured around strength, um, stability, full body strength, and the rowing obviously is more endurance focused. Some of those are aerobic, so like a longer effort, some more anaerobic, short sprints.

But the main kind of pillar of robots in the USP is that we build our classes around psychological theme. So, rather than being full body, the class is called reset, which is about failure, for example, and that's one of our themes. The programming in physical terms is programmed towards forcing failure, stepping back, resetting and going again. So across the week we have planned and kind of orchestrated and created a menu that we think benefits you from monday through sunday on repeat and that's progressed and structured to ensure that you're developing yourself as a person up here, between your ears, in the machine room, which is our gym. That carries over to the person that you are out of the machine room in the real world.

:: 24:31

It's awesome, I love that gotta come down whenever you're ready. Absolutely, that's for everyone as well, like that case, totally absolutely 100.

:: 24:37

Yes, we've got um from beginner to advanced, like we've got, I mean, one of our co-founders, sam. His mom used to come. She's don't want to say her age, I'm not sure, but she's a lot older than me and we've got athletes who are 20, 25, who come in like we've obviously got a spectrum of weights and the coaching is very meticulous. We ensure that our coaches are of a certain calibre, both in terms of mindset and also physical programming, to ensure that, whether you are a beginner or advanced, you're well challenged, as needed in a group X environment.

:: 25:03

I love that some of you will know, we've done a couple posts now. Joe and I did a high rocks for the first time in Switzerland.

And Pele was in Switzerland as well, in St Galen, one of the weirdest places I've ever been, as we talked about off camera the ghost town. But we underestimate how hard the row would be. I just wanted to put it out there. We were planning before and we were like, okay, so we'll probably fly through the sled, push, we'll fly through the row, we'll fly through the farmer's carries. We got to the row and we were just absolutely cooked.

:: 25:33

Yeah, it's hard. What was your taxing? How did you split up the thousand metres?

:: 25:36

250, 250, 250, 250 is what we did. I don't know if that's the right thing to do he made me start everything, by the way.

:: 25:41

Oh really, you can start and I'll bring up the rest. I'll be there. Cheers, tom.

:: 25:47

Thanks mate of either you go from the run into the station or from a station into the run. I think they're both equally depending on what station. They're both equally daunting, but which was the easiest station apart from the sled push that you mentioned before, For me lunges.

:: 26:00

I was surprised how easy.

:: 26:01

the lunges were For you, flying on the lunges, Lunges.

:: 26:03

I felt, okay, Hardest. We spoke off air, but the hardest for me was the farmer's carries. My heart went to the roof on those ones.

:: 26:09

I thought we spoke beforehand and we said Joe, you just do the whole thing, joe.

:: 26:14

you just do the whole thing, because you'll be good at that we tried splitting it up like 70-30, 70-30.

:: 26:19

I'll do 70, joe will do 30, and then I'll do 30, joe will do 70, and then we'll go 50-50. On some and on the farm scars we were just like Joe, just bl it and then I'll start with the what's after the lunges at seven or something. I'll start with them and blitz the hoops.

:: 26:35

Mate any plan that you have on high rocks like out the window.

:: 26:39

It doesn't take you five minutes.

:: 26:40

And then it's like just fucking hold on, like do what you can. Yeah, that's the thing.

:: 26:46

I think for the next one we do, I think it will be just, if you're You're both struggling, just dig deep, absolutely.

:: 26:50

Do you train a lot together?

:: 26:51

No, no, not at all, not once. Do more of that.

:: 26:54

Again words to the wise if you are going to do doubles, 100% train with the person you're with, because you don't know what their strengths will lie until the actual event itself, usually. So we'll do a couple of sims for the next one.

:: 27:16

But that's what I was curious to see, like how come you made it based around rowing?

:: 27:18

did you like experience the same thing where you were like shit, this is hard, yeah, and then build it around that, so. So essentially, we saw a big gap in the market. Right, there's a lot. There still is now, and it's great. You know, mind body that means different things depending who you chat to, but mind body is phenomenal, attaching power and value to those two things in conjunction with each other.

When we open robots, when we were building the idea and the philosophies around it and the structure, there wasn't anything that challenged you in terms of mental conditioning, like, more than just passively sit and breathe, how can we challenge your mind to be better tomorrow than you are today?

Rowing's hard. The team had some experience in their own different areas of life. I'd experience from my rehab so I was like, for me, this is phenomenal, combining rowing of mindset two things that I've utilized and have helped me in my journey as an athlete. And then again we did a lot of market research and like there were a few classes that use rowing but not in the way that we thought they could be used or utilized beginner to advanced. There's so many different um ways we can tap into progressing a rowing machine, like depending on your technique, time you have available, you can get a banging workout in a short period of time. You can be on there for sprints for long efforts, so it's a full body bit of kit. It's low impact, so a lot of runners come to robots or people who've gone to other facilities that are more impact based good point yeah, and they can come in get a huge aerobic workout.

Full body strength. Like you know, get on the rower for two minutes, let alone for half an hour, you build not only a strong engine but a robust body. You move well.

:: 28:42

So it was a combination of all those things and some classes now are just strength, to ensure that we've got um different options, but majority of rowing and strength, do you find a lot of people coming through your doors are coming through due to the mental side of things doing for like, like, earning no, looking for that sort of like outlet of things, where they're looking for a place where they can go, not just for their physical health but also for their mental health. And then the fact you've almost done it in a triangle right where you prioritized all areas. I think think that's so unique and in my opinion, that's where everything should be going, because I gym at March on purely at the moment probably 70-30, but 70 for the mental side of things. The accountability side takes away all the structure of the workouts, but also being around like-minded people who are also training for that front, I think places like Robots and where I train March on are like the complete future of that, and I think you're in at a perfect time and I love that you prioritize that side, because you go to a David Lloyd and it's amazing.

Like facilities are great, but you know you train on your own, you put your headphones in, for example, and you focus on the physical. When I'm in a place of like-minded people, there's a step structure, as you've said, and each thing is programmed to sort of benefit your mental side as well. I feel like a different person doing things like that and that's one of the biggest things I wish I brought into my life earlier are those sort of group sessions, because I think at the end of the day, people are just desperate for a community and being around like-minded people. I was just wondering if you find that a lot when people come in they say that to you like the people I'm with is just is the best part of it matt, I couldn't agree more super powerful what you've just said there, obviously on an ollie well marchand's phenomenal facility, and they do things the right way as well with regards their physical setup and like product or value rather, is way more than just tangible products.

:: 30:34

Right, like we can have the most sexy studio, you can walk in. You can spend infinite amount of cash in the studio or a gym facility, but if the value doesn't go further than tangible product, what are you even doing? Like the community, the way that you're, you're welcomed. If you're welcomed in the front of house, don't know your name and you're a regular on a monday morning, like how is that even rolling? But it does in a lot of places. And when we opened, we opened like it was our home. Myself, sam greg, and our gm and another head coach were there six, seven days a week chatting to every member that we could. And people started to say, like you do things differently here and we hadn't. Actually, we've done a lot of research, but we hadn't been to a lot of classes from direct competitors, purely because we didn't want to get our ideas tainted by what they're currently doing. Start to explore them more. And we realized that when you walk into these places, you're literally a number. You come in, you're right here's your towel.

That's your, your station. You do a class, you shower, see you later. You might not even get to see you later if their head's down making a shake or whatever. So we were like no, that's not how we're going to roll it. We're going to create an environment where you come in, you're welcomed, you have a chat in front of house. People want to be in an environment where, like to your point, they can thrive with each other, and community is the bloodline, has been since day one and will always be the bloodline of robots, because without that you've just got a tangible product that someone can go and get anywhere else.

:: 31:51

So, and it's not free, because it takes time to build and the personnel are important, but it costs nothing do you think your love of that community and that safe space you create for your members has come from being on your own a lot and not feeling like you belong in a certain space?

:: 32:06

I think it's come twofold from being in a team most of my life and knowing the value and having it pulled away from me and being like, fuck, I'm quite lost here.

:: 32:13

Yeah, for sure definitely you're running some men's health events, men's mental health events, um and bits you're doing. I know you're a big advocate for all these things. I was just wondering if you'd touch on on that front what events there is coming up or you're attending, uh, and talk a bit more on that yeah.

:: 32:29

So over the last 11 years of pting I've coached everyone right like. You guys know how it is. When you start, you coach whoever comes into the studio. You're given a client and you realize pretty quick I vibe with these kind of people, whether it's male, female, older, younger, sport, not sport, whatever. You start to realize and create common themes between people that you really can help and want to help and obviously you absolutely um would pass them to someone else.

And I've really lent into coaching men the last two years properly and realized that I can obviously relate to being a man much more than I can to a woman. I can help a woman get fitter and stronger, but my passion lies of getting men who are in a place that I used to be so like. I spent a lot of time optimizing all areas of health, being really um focus of my learning and development around health, fitness, nutrition, but at the expense of my mental health and not putting enough time into valuing connection, physical interaction and being those environments. A lot of it was like solo work. I didn't really have a space to express that side of myself.

:: 33:27

So creating exactly what I wish I had when I was 25 is precisely what I'm doing now, and it's and it's been a beautiful journey so far Was there a moment where you were like this is your next kind of calling, in a way, and that next part were you having a conversation with someone or was it just progressive over time?

You were like I'm seeing more people. As you said before, this could be something where I focus more on coaching only men, because with us on season one, this could be something where I focus more on coaching only men, because with us on season one we did um talking to anyone about anything around mental health and well-being. And for season two we were like we're going to go purely, you know, men's mental health and well-being, just because of the relatable side, like I remember we're having conversations and I kept agreeing that I was. I could relate, but then it would be something I've never gone through before or something I felt like I couldn't give my two cents on because I'd never experienced that side of like the men's mental health, the men's health thing. Was there like a defining moment for you where you were like, oh yeah, like this is kind of my next area, I'm going to push into.

:: 34:23

I think, to be honest, it was a lot of those moments of being in environments where I've been in many different communities that are health and wellness oriented whether they're male only mixed boutique fitness wellness retreats and I started to I'm an observer, like I learn by observing, yeah, and emulating things in my own way and adding my own flavor or flair, as it were, and just seeing that a lot of communities were very, excuse me, one dimensional, like a running community, a cycling community, a men's group it's more kind of um, vulnerability focused a walking group, breathwork group these things are all phenomenal, but I was like I want a place where it can all happen and I can bring in, like it's not, it's not the pelle show.

I can bring in facilitators like jamie, who you guys know, yeah came to one of my men's events led a phenomenal breathwork session and not give these people space because they've all got phenomenal followings and communities and businesses already, but like looping experts that I vibe with, having guys there that want to learn and feel empowered by these different elements of wellness and being a facilitator for that space. So just being in different environments and realizing there's a gap for this and like it's the classic kind of cliche, like, like if you can't find it, create it. And that's kind of the mission I'm on now is to create a space that I wish I had when I was doing everything, but in an unstructured manner, not knowing who the voices of reason were, not knowing which guys I wanted to be around, and I can confidently welcome any man into this space and be like you will leave here better than when you entered. You'll be around good people and it's incredible when it's just men, the ego just drops. Whether it's a sweaty workout or it's a recovery session or a talk around mindset.

Men are super open. When you give them a platform to be and you give them options to consider, bro, it's cool, you can be yourself here. It takes time to open up. It takes time to open up but then leave and be like I need more of this and the biggest feedback's been the events are great, but like I want something more regular, I don't want to wait a quarter.

:: 36:16

Best compliment you can get. Yeah, I was like shit good point to have.

:: 36:21

But just seeing men from all ages come in and leave and build connections with other guys for me has been super like purpose-driven and fulfilling.

:: 36:33

So hosting these? Has there been a certain moment that's really stuck with you, something that is emotional or like a profound moment that you've been?

:: 36:37

like, wow, you know that that's really hit me. Just getting some of the messages after like I'm sure you everyone you know gets messages depending on your career path and who you're helping that could really touch you. But like certain guys that talk about how they've been treated in relationships with men or with women or in their family and being like I didn't know these spaces existed, I think a lot of men get used to being like we're good at suffering right. Like you wake up and you're like today's gonna be fucking hard, but it's normal to me. So like today's gonna be hard, tomorrow's gonna be hard, next week's gonna be tough, it's gonna be a hard year, fucking hell, it's gonna be hard whatever. Rather than being like no, there must be more.

And seeing guys leave the events and feeling empowered to then go and make certain choices in their life with career relationships, seeing them open up over the course of events. They walk in hunched over head down, they walk out loud and proud, chatting to guys. I'm like that's awesome, that's what it's all about, because I know how it feels to be the guy who's like not do I belong here, but what's my purpose? Who am I? So it's really kind of fulfilling to feel that.

:: 37:35

I want to take you back to that, that time where you spoke about how you felt purposeless and you had no sort of drive or you don't know what the next step was for you, for how bad did it get for you? When you're in that moment because you mentioned earlier how you had you've had therapy and all that kind of stuff, just how, take me back to, if you don't mind, that time of your life where you just didn't know where the next step would be and how bad did it get pretty bad man, to be honest, like I wouldn't say that I'm very careful to talk about, um, certain things in this space.

:: 38:06

But I had times and I was like it'd be a lot easier not to be here, like, and it wasn't a thought that I confidently say on these days, at this time I was going to do this, but for a good 18 months, every day was just waking up and being I'd rather not kind of not wake up. Today, yeah, and that's when drugs became a big part of my life, and because there was such a positive outlet and I was around good people and you combine good music with good friends and drugs in my experience, that part of my life was great. Then I'd wake up the next day and I'd need to find some sort of release again. And that's when I realized, like after exactly chase certain point, like no mate, this is not you, because one day you'll wake up with a big come down and you'll make a bad choice and then get being around the wrong people, realizing like, if I'm not the architect of my own environment, things that you guys find normal are now things that I find normal, but those aren't my values. That's not how I was brought up. That's not the things that really light me up. So if I don't make a change, this is going to go one way and it's not up.

And that was the point when I really realized, like get to the gym. And I just say to people at the gym yo, I'm pele, like what you training? And suddenly you realize that people are pretty welcoming and open. This was when I was like 21. Then I'm like cool, I've got four mates that go to the gym rather than four mates that go to fabric free nights a week.

And then my whole ethos started to change around environment and like I'm gonna pick myself up and extract myself from a and put myself in b. So it was, it was a tough time and I really I really can relate to guys that are like there's no way out. I'm just like trust me, there's more and I'm. I've really tapped into my spiritual side the last couple of years and that's been a huge uh awakening for me really to realize like one day we're all dust, finito and everyone says you know life's short, yola, whatever. But it's like if you don't have a purpose right now, that's cool. Like you said, lean into yourself, discover you want to be around, discover who you are rather, and choose who you want to be around and trust that in time, things will improve, and I really like. For me it's a big, it's a big passion and driving force behind these events is helping men to realize that, like there is more whether that's getting in better shape or improving up here between your ears, there's always more where do you see these events going?

:: 40:16

what's your big goal in mind?

:: 40:18

oh, big man, big um. I really see in-person activations as the next, not the next, big thing. It's always been a big thing, from the day that you know anything was created on this planet, but community has driven every big decision in my personal experience of life, for good or bad. So creating a space that men can come and feel themselves and connect with other guys for me, like that is the next chapter in the wellness space for men to thrive mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally, financially and I always think not always often should I do mixed events, because I've done quite a few in the past with my girlfriend, ria and at Robots. But I know that I need a space to be around good men and I'm like, if all goes to shit, I'm creating something that I really enjoy and I can enjoy it myself and hopefully everyone else around me as well has a great time.

So I think the challenge would be like monetizing it. I'm very conscious not to just put it behind a paywall, because it's a touchy thing, yeah, but it's got to work financially. So I want to work with some more. I'm working already some really cool brands, but more brands I'm in line with the guys can benefit from as well and kind of build out that way, rather than just you know, increasing the price from x to y and then it goes as high as it needs to go. That's not really my vibe amazing man.

:: 41:28

I'd love to end it on this last question. We ask all our guests If you can give one piece of advice for the listeners and viewers out there to take back into their day-to-day lives. What piece of advice would that be?

:: 41:40

Should I prep this one?

:: 41:42

I think I would say.

:: 41:45

If it was one, I'd say focus on private victories over public victories. I think the person you are behind closed doors is an incredibly empowering person to be when you're doing the right things. And it's so easy for us to cheat ourselves when no one's watching, when the lights are off, as it were, and it's hard to do the small things when no one's watching. But if that becomes your key philosophy and cornerstone of who you are as a person, everything else will build off that and come as a byproduct, rather than chasing whether it's the financial goal, the status, the this to that at the expense of your mental health behind closed doors. That's not a very good place to be. So private victories over everything powerful, awesome man.

:: 42:24

Thanks so much for coming on. Thanks having me, guys that was awesome.