#20 | Part 2 Jamie Clements - Finding A Purpose, Breathwork Tips & Important Life Lessons

previously in part one in that world because I was very, very good from a position of being genuine and being honest with someone. It was all relationship led it was empathy, it was understanding. Last couple of years it's been kind of floating around in my awareness and then in the last six months it's become a little bit another great book, all the books coming out yeah, I was gonna say ego is the enemy.

Ryan holiday I'm so good, so, but I'd love to. Yeah, I'd love to hear all about yeah ego is the enemy he talks about.

Um, do you want to be someone or do you want to do something? Um, and I think, especially at the moment, in the age of social media, we're so enamored with this idea of being someone. We want to be seen to be someone. Um, fame, celebrity, public acclaim you know it's rife at the moment in terms of we chase it. You know the fact that it can be a career to be. You know, tiktok creator.

You know there's some people creating amazing content and very valuable content, but there's a lot of people just dancing and getting paid to do it. It's like what? Where's the value in that? Like each to content, but there's a lot of people just dancing and getting paid to do it. It's like what? Where's the value in that? Like each to their own, but where's the value in that on a societal level? Um, and so that, for me, is is the piece around like, am I trying to be someone or am I trying to do something? And maybe through doing something, you become someone because you're. You know, you see these people who are just all out about making impact. They do amazing work and then they get credit for it, they get acclaim for it, they get notoriety for it, no problem with that. But I think that's the routine. I think if you're chasing, trying to be someone for the sake of being someone, that's going to leave that void, because it's all very much with that external focus and that external kind of locus of validation.

I saw a quote which we. I looked on a reel earlier and it was one probably the best reel I've ever seen on instagram. It was an edit by this guy and it was mark cuban. And mark cuban was saying everyone is good at something, but the hardest thing is to find what you're good at. And and I really related to that because I really struggled to find you know, I always knew I wanted to do something and I'm not saying I'm amazing at podcasting, whatever, but the production side but, like I almost always knew I wanted to do something, I always knew I could be like that could be my thing, but I could never find it and it was so hard to find and it was an accident.

You know, I started this. I wanted to talk about mental health and obviously joe is the first guest and it all went from there and it's something I've fallen in love with and I wouldn't change for the world, like it's the best thing I've done in terms of your breath, work, stuff. How hard was that for you to find? And when you did find it, was that a bit like that's the one, or was it a slow process and you got good at it and you, you realized after that. You know what I think you're spot on.

I think the it will often feel like an accident, I think, when you kind of stumble upon your like, if we want to talk about in terms of purpose. But I think purpose can be something that changes.

I do think purpose evolves and changes. In terms of you as an individual, um, and I do think often it can feel quite accidental. The interesting thing for me with breathwork was if I look back and I think about all of the choices that I've made to get to where I am now, from, you know, losing that job to where I am currently at, a lot of those choices as someone who grew up'd say, quite cautious, quite risk averse a lot of those choices and people have you know, friends have said this to me, family have said this to me seem like big decisions, like big risks. I left good job to set up on my own and, you know, take a bit of a punt on on something relatively out there, in the kind of broader picture.

To me not once did it ever feel like a risk, not once did I ever feel like I was taking a leap of faith. It felt so certain and this is where I can, you know, I count myself as a very logical person and a very spiritual person. This is where I kind of really step into my spirituality, which is it feels like it's been a pull rather than a push, like I've been on the path doing this, and it's almost, um, as the quote is quote I heard the other day. It's like how do you know you're on the right path? It's because, um, you lose any sense of being on the path at all. Like, I'm not taking, I'm not stepping along, I'm just kind of.

It's just sort of the process is unfolding, yeah, and it continues to do that and sometimes I go oh, does that mean I'm just a passenger? Am I just kind of being led? And actually I'm not in control of this at all? I wouldn't say so because I'm also making yeah reminds me of a psychedelic journey that I had, where I had this like intense realization of and I scribbled it down like awful writing because I was tripping and it was this idea that in the micro, so the day-to-day, that's where you're making the decisions. So making the decision to come here, making the decision to wake up to do this, to do that, that's my role, that's like that's my power. In the macro, in terms of how this all plays out, that's where my hands are completely off the reins. That's where I don't feel like I actually have much of a say, like there is something just flowing. I have control over the micro, but actually there's kind of a bigger picture, that is is moving. Um, so, yeah, in terms of how that's unfolded in a very practical sense with work, um, I started doing it and it came very naturally from a place of genuine interest and passion.

I think I've always been someone maybe you guys can relate, and I know a lot of people. That and passion. I think I've always been someone. Maybe you guys can relate, and I know a lot of people that can relate. I think it's actually more common than that. I'm giving a credit if I care about something, if I'm interested in something, it's not hard to learn about it, it's not hard to dive into it. Um, I I would never have considered myself a public speaker because I was always trying to speak about things that I had to learn in school, not not presenting about something that I had a genuine passion for, and so it just really brought to the surface and again, I think this is how purpose often works I found the thing and then the thing, by nature of finding it, brought to the surface all of these very strong parts of me. So my ability to connect with people, my ability to hold a safe space emotionally for people, my ability to articulate ideas and communicate, my ability to be creative and communicate those ideas in an accessible way, these are all things that have served me incredibly well in my work.

Did they only come about because I started doing this work? No, they already lived within me, but it was about the matchup of my positive traits and my skills that were very innate to me as who I am, as a being, with the thing, and so it was like I found an interest, I found something that helped me, and it aligned in a lot of ways with what you know, what I, what I'm good at, and I think that to me feels like quite a helpful definition of finding your thing. It's like does the thing that you love mesh comfortably and easily with the things that you're good at? And I feel very fortunate for that. Like I often have people say to me, say to me, you know, oh, you've got a great voice for guiding breath work, and I'm like I was thinking that before, but like what I love everybody for saying that.

But, like, what a stupid thing to say, because I didn't start doing this work because of my voice, nor did I, like, craft my voice to fit the thing. But it does make total sense that also the thing that I love doing and the thing that I'm good at requires you to have a voice that suits it. Yeah, and aren't I lucky? But also, it's not a coincidence, right, because someone with a voice similar to mine will naturally be. You know, I can speak in a considered slow way, a calm way, and communicate well, and that fits the thing that I want to do. And so, like, I get it, and it's not stupid to say it. But if it always makes me laugh because I've not, you know, thanks, I made it myself. What about, like, my understanding of?

the topic of my, my deep knowledge. No, it's the voice I'm like forget you.

Yeah, you're great, jay. Anyone could do it with that voice mate, come on it's all fake as well.

I've got a scouse accent we were speaking before about ayurveda and I don't know if you guys follow the nfl. I'm a huge nfl guy and, um, I know there's a quarterback called aaron rogers, um, and a lot of the guys are called jordan poyer as well, who's a safety in the nfl. They go on, uh, ayahuasca retreats, um, they say it's like the best, best thing they've ever done. They get to understand themselves. They brought their families on it this time and it's like a proper, proper retreat. You. You say, uh, on your videos there's like three types of breathing you, which I'd love to go into more depth, but that's kind of what the deeper understanding is one of them. Yeah, and what you were saying before about it, can you just expand on what you actually do in those things and what goes on? Because they all rave about it, they talk, yeah, all the shows being like please just try it, and these are like very, very tough men who are great football players as well, ayahuasca is an interesting one.

I've not experienced ayahuasca myself, um, and I know from friends who have done it and what I know of the compound and the plant medicine and how it, how it works. Um, that is the deepest of deep ends in terms of healing and in terms of experiences. Um, certainly not something for everybody, but um can be incredibly powerful. Um, I guess to tie this to breath work, and then we can kind of talk about the broader picture of psychedelics and altered states of consciousness. So very quick, I guess whistle stop tour of my interpretation and understanding of breath work, which is this sort of three, as you said, three-pillared approach, very much the day-to-day, which is about functional breathing. So how you're breathing right now.

Take 20,000 breaths every single day, most of us more than that and how do we optimize that?

How do we optimize our natural, natural breathing pattern?

We then have nervous system regulation, simple breathing techniques to create a change in the nervous system, either energize us, activate us or calm us and relax us.

And then we have transformational style breath work, which is about this modality called conscious connected breathing and comes under many different names but at its core it's about giving us an experience of altered states of consciousness through the breath and also tapping into the subconscious mind, um, and also working with the, the emotional body, and what I mean by that is the, the way in which we hold emotional energy and repressed emotions in our body and our nervous system, and it can give us this capacity to release that, to process that, to to work with, in some cases, trauma, to work with our past, our subconscious mind, and it's a thing because it's typically been in the realm of the esoteric, the spiritual, the woo-woo, but actually we're going to see it coming more and more and more into the mainstream we already have.

Um. Then, if we look at something like ayahuasca, if we look at something like psilocybin, magic mushrooms, um, and this psychedelic renaissance, there was a study that came out in sept last year that found that certain styles of breath work, like conscious, connected breathing, can create mystical, transcendent experiences that are on a par to medium to high doses of psilocybin and magic mushrooms, which I've been waiting for some good research to come out around this stuff, because I'm a nerd and when I saw that I was surprised because I was like I know we can create these mega experiences through the breath but.

I didn't realize it would be quite at that level. I've always talked about it really as a a an entry point like almost a gateway drug to get ourselves into some of those deeper, deeper experiences.

Um, but to see that in a paper in writing, I was like, okay, like now we know what we're dealing with. Like we do know from an anecdotal level what we're dealing with, but actually to see it in the research has been, it's been amazing. Um, and in all of these experiences we are essentially exploring the deeper, darker layers of the psyche and the self, the stuff that we've pushed away, the stuff we've pushed down, and actually I see a thread that runs through all of the most powerful and impactful, I guess, modalities of healing and therapy and typically alternative therapies. And the thread seems to be can you meet the parts of yourself that you've either rejected, ignored or pushed away head on and bring them back in and integrate them away head on and bring them back in and integrate them? And that can be an incredibly confronting, challenging experience.

You know people talk about bad trips, bad experiences, but really it's just a challenging experience and the in those challenging experiences are where you get the good stuff, because we can all be comfortable, we can all be on easy street ignoring those kind of underlying things, but it's those things that secretly kind of run our lives.

They're kind of like our internal Illuminati in a way. So, um, yeah, we have to go kind of if we want to. Not everyone actually needs to open this box. I don't think there's a lot of people who you know are perfectly happy with their lives and I think if you are genuinely perfectly happy with your life, then you don't actually need to open that box. But if you have any sense that you'd like to understand yourself better, explore those deeper parts of yourself, then there are ways to do that now, both legal and accessible breathwork. Less legal, less accessible psychedelics, but so much power in them when they're used responsibly and safely. And I think that's kind of the main disclaimer. There is that there's an important piece of psychological safety, of training, of getting the right support through that as well.

You said you're big on your studies. As Joe knows, I love a study, but I wanted to bring, uh, bring this back to mental health. Is there any like studies you've seen, that you know off the top of your head, that show the link, uh, the clear link between breath work and bettering your mental health? Yeah, the answer is yes just cuff it there that's all.

I've got? Yes, there is. So I guess we can batch it into two realms. I'd say um, that micro and that macro piece. So the day-to-day functional breathing nervous system regulation.

We're very not even fortunate, but very fortunate, in a way, grateful that there's been 20 odd years of research that we now have at our disposal and and the benefits are, you know, well, well documented in terms of improved sleep, in terms of improved mood, reduced anxiety, reduced stress, improved cognitive function, improved memory. You know all of these things. You know, if you think about a list of the things that you'd like to improve with mental well-being in terms of that whole holistic piece covers every base if you get it right and there's research to back that up. Now, lower blood pressure, you know. Lower resting heart rate, higher hrv, like all of these things we can tie back to to the breath um. In terms of the deeper end of the spectrum, it's been really recent. There's a couple of studies from the 90s um, but they didn't really get anywhere. And then I'd say, with this sort of renaissance in the last five years or so, we've seen last couple of years, there's some studies that have been conducted that are starting to come through. A guy I know is doing a PhD at the moment. He's looking at conscious connected breath work in his dissertation. He's just done the biggest controlled randomized study in breath work for anxiety and we're starting to see the results come through in terms of that study.

I mentioned around mystical experiences, transformational experiences and the impact of that on mood, the impact of that on anxiety. And there's interesting friend of mine who loves, really loves studies. Shout out to, uh, nick heath. Yeah, nick's amazing, he's based in the states, um, he goes by the breathing diabetic and um, he loves a study and a summary of a study. And um, I was sat in one of his his presentations and he was talking about research now showing that there are benefits for across mental health, physical health, emotional health, exercise and performance and spiritual health.

And I went who's researching spiritual health? Like surely they just get laughed out of the lab. Someone goes I want to research, like how this impacts spiritual health. But of course, in this day and age, there are always going to be people looking into that, always going to be people looking into that.

And what that actually looks like are things like an increased sense of connection to yourself, an increased sense of connection to community to nature, increased joy, increased gratitude, like these things that are somewhat unquantifiable but incredibly important in terms of, I guess, defining what is your outlook on the world around you. Are you kind of trait positive or trait negative in terms of how you're seeing things? Because I do think that often, if we're talking about mental health, we're really talking about the lens through which we view the world. Um, because you can be the same person in the same environment and you can be absolutely miserable or not, and it can show up very, very differently. So, yeah, it's fascinating actually to see the research touching on all of these different areas, from very basic kind of cardiovascular health to anxiety, through to kind of spiritual health as well why is breath weight?

why is it popular now? Why is it suddenly just become a thing? If it's not because, like you said, we breathe 20 000 times a day, and why is it suddenly a popular thing to be talking about? And if it's something that's so important and so key?

and yeah, I just got a few ideas. Um, firstly, the mental health epidemic, if we want to call it that. Rates of stress and anxiety, um, that goes up, you know, the number of people looking for support, looking for ways to support themselves, goes up. I think that's kind of the most clear and obvious one. Um, secondly, interesting, I really saw a change in covid, I think, in terms of breath work, but also in terms of individual exploration. So more people struggling. Covid was also a respiratory disease, so we're paying attention to breath.

A number of people talking about shortness of breath with COVID, but also so many people I won't put my tinfoil hat on at this point but so many people questioning what they're being told, questioning the healthcare system, questioning the medical system, pharma, you know, government at the extreme end of the spectrum and breathwork this is, I find this a really interesting take, if I say so myself. Um, breathwork is a gateway into that, because once you realize your own innate, unique capacity to, let's say, heal yourself or certainly take control and autonomy over your state and your functioning and your well-being, all of a sudden you do open your eyes up to those questions of like oh they, I went to the doctor. I did go to the doctor at 17, walked in gp, said I had anxiety, walked out 30 seconds later with a prescription for antidepressants. That is insane. I think I my mate told me the other day it's like 8.9 million people in the uk on antidepressants currently. Really, that is mad, that is bonkers Tom here.

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